nickhjazz Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Hi to all, I am having problems with the angle drive on my TR4a. The car has just had a total nut and bolt restoration - this is the one outstanding issue. Speedo has been overhauled. Speedo fine for about 80 miles then stopped. Investigation showed cable fine. Angle drive removed. Turned by hand and it appeared to work but under any load it wouldn't turn. I now have a replacement second hand angle drive which seems to work fine away from the car. Before fitting I have tested it by attaching a brand new cable to the drive. Turning the short cable at the gearbox end by hand momentarily turned the cable but then no movement. I disconnected the cable and found that the drive now appears to work. So the problem is that it doesn't work under load. I wonder if there is wear inside the drive so the cable end is not gripped sufficiently and slips under load. I know that new replacements are available but have heard that these are not of particularly good quality. That's why I went for a used part. Any ideas would be helpful. As we know, replacing the angle drive is not an easy or quick job even though I have a split gearbox tunnel! Thanks Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Use the Search facility and all will be revealed,AlanT on this Forum is the Man who has the Cure for these. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Here we go. Did you buy a genuine Smiths part? Around the end where the big gear goes in there are part numbers in raised letters on a Smiths one. Not many others are marked like this. A lot of repros have the wire-stub held in place by a dab of weld. This is unsound and will usually fracture. Smiths are push-fit. Check this: http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/47968-pesky-right-angled-drives/ PM me if you want more help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nickhjazz Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks for swift replies. I did search but this thread never appeared. AlanT's investigations are very revealing. I fear I don't have an original Smiths drive but a repro. The restorer has a German one we can try but I now fear this will be a Bastuck! My own skills and tools will not run to dismantling and repairing. Further investigation now needed..... Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nickhjazz Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 It is a Smiths drive and it now appears to work. I think I had failed to fully insert the cable end into the drive. As the other end was not connected to the speedo it was drifting out. It goes in the car tomorrow so that will be the test. Here's hoping! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) If you want to find stuff on here, use Google like this: site:www.tr-register.co.uk angle drives Edited July 23, 2015 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Hi Nick, when fitting do not forget the copper washer!!! I bought a Moss item a few months ago. The gear meshing was a bit lumpy and the square ouptput drive would not go into the OD socket. Got a replacement and it was very good. Here is a pic of one I changed last week on a friends 4A Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nickhjazz Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's in and speedo working for first 2 miles anyway. Will see how it goes tomorrow. Thanks again for advice and help. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nickhjazz Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 It went well for 40 miles then speedo stopped! I removed the angle drive to find that the wire stub had broken off. Other than this the drive is still working. Further investigation of the one on the car before this Smiths replacement was fitted revealed it to be a Bastuck. the circlip had broken so the wire stub was not being held in except that it had nowhere to go when on the car. Reinserting the wire stub and turning by hand only achieved rotation through the angle drive in one position so it looks like there is no point in finding a circlip and putting it back in. I shall go back to the supplier of the used Smiths one and see if he has another and is happy to replace the broken one. As for the copper washer....... Well, Roger, I didn't fit one which could be the cause of the failure! The reason I didn't fit one was that the supplier said he'd never ever seen one in years of dismantling Triumphs, the restorer said he'd asked around in the trade and nobody had ever heard about this and the Revington web site says they were never applicable to TRs. Only Rimmer Bros say the guarantee is invalid if you don't fit one. Personally, I can't see what harm fitting one could do and it might have saved the latest breakage. So if and when I get another drive, I'll fit the washer! I have another month before a three week trip to Scotland! Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) There are two variants of Smiths drive. The dfference is the way the big nut is held on. One needs a washer and the other probably does not. Some repros don't have a long enough thread for the nut to go tight unless there is a washer. I'm making Acetal washers. They are better at preventing the nut from working loose. If it does work loose then this happens: https://flic.kr/p/vx5vT4 I'd try to find out why the wire-stub got torn off. Remember I will buy broken Smiths drives. PM me. Edited July 25, 2015 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 There isnt any washers with the originals its only the repros that need the washer., these repro angle drives are just as poor as the rev counter angle drive repros we used to have terrible trouble with back in the seventies for XK`s and MK1 Jaguars, any good originals used to go for £100 and up then! Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 It's interesting to see the difference in repros made in the UK and the east. The UK ones are often a pretty good copy of Smiths. The worst from the east I've seen had gears which were cast not cut. This leaves them rough and prone to jam. They often try to weld the wire-stub. This is a weld between a small piece of soft steel and a big thick piece of high carbon steel. They crack like this: https://flic.kr/p/rmiMk1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Anyone with Angle Drive problems send them to AlanT he has the Repair of these Mastered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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