Jump to content

'66 TR4A - my first Triumph


Recommended Posts

Hi Guys!

 

I'd like to introduce myself and my new purchase!

I'm Luka (27), from Belgrade, Serbia, and this is my first Triumph:

 

IMG_3637_zpsw6falaoh.jpg

I was always a car nut, but recently decided to drill a hole in my pocket, wallet and bank account and enjoy the best hobby there is - oldtimers! Apart from the newly acquired TR4A i've got a Morris Mini Minor that i'm in a process of restoring it (making a Cooper S Works replica), so i caught the bug badly :)

 

Now, The TR4A:

 

Bought it last weekend in Slovenia - it's a USA IRS model, no overdrive, no heater, built in 1966. The owner claimed that it was fully restored, so i sat in a car and travelled 500km to buy it. The price was rather good for a fully restored car - 11k quid. Of course there's a catch!

His meaning of the word restoration is - take everything apart, sandblast the body and chassis, paint everything, put everything together using old bits. Not even air filter changed. Ok, interior has been worked on - nicely upholstered seats, but too tall now, sort of OK dash, new carpet.

The front wheels had toe in of 16mm! And apparently he's covered 3000km since 2013 when it was registered.

 

So i bought it. And covered 1000km in 2 days - not without issues, but it was great getting to know the beast.

Huge issue with 1 carb. It's a HS6, and the jet and the jet assembly were not centered in the hole where they should sit, so they jammed the piston by clamping the needle. After an hour of fiddling we were on our way!

Next, on the Croatian-Serbia border, the top radiator hose broke. A bit of insulation tape that i had in the toolbox did the trick along with unscrewing the radiator cap to reduce the pressure.

Then the dynamo died at 10pm on the unlit bit of the motorway, 45km from Belgrade, so you can imagine the trouble - but we made it home.

Now the car is at the customs, and hopefully i'll get it tomorrow ready for registration!

 

It needs some attention, but i guess it won't be difficult to keep it on the road in good condition, slowly becoming better and better

 

IMG_3642_zpsrwcyyre6.jpg

 

IMG_3519_zps6qa9j9fl.jpg

 

in the following posts i'll be sharing the ideas i have for it, and will be asking a lot of questions, for sure :)

 

Cheers!

 

Luka

Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger, many thanks for the warm welcome!

 

yeah, it was a bit brave, perhaps stupid, but from talking to the previous owner it was good to go. Turns out not so, but hey, when would i be driving side by side with a friend on a motorway with no headlights to save the battery with him having main beams on for me to see where i'm going? :D

 

As you can see from the photos, the rear suspension is ridiculous. Also, as mentioned, big issue with carbs, electrics and in need of a brake system overhaul - master cylinder slightly leaky..

 

So I was thinking to do the work in this order:

- Repair the dynamo (until i decide to go with narrow belt conversion, alternator and electric fan conversion)

- Rebuild the twin HS6s

- Repair the brake master cylinder, rebuild front calipers with stainless steel pistons and new seals, install new hoses, rebuild rear brakes

- Replace dodgy soggy nasty rear springs with uprated 350lbs springs (perhaps 390lbs)

- Repair clutch master and slave cylinder and replace the hose

- Fit the cover for the hood when folded

- enjoy the summer

 

For winter i have planned the following:

New walnut dashboard

New Motolita steering wheel

5.5x15 Chrome wheels & Classic Sprint 185/70 tyres

Front anti-roll bar

Front and rear suspension work (yet to decide what to do)

 

Now here come many options and questions...

- I have to say that i am amazed by the torque of the car and definitely want to keep it down low, so no wild cams and revvy stuff (i've got my 90+bhp Mini for that :) )

I'm not planning on getting the engine out yet. It seems to be in good condition, but we'll see. However i have an idea of what i'd like it to be once i open it:

- 87 or 89mm Pistons and liners

- TT1104 or similar high low down torque cam (Kent High Torque? TR4-4 perhaps?)

- Some light porting and polishing, perhaps skimming, just to be in the region of 9.75:1 CR, perhaps 10:1, but i believe that's a bit pushing

- Electronic ignition and recurved distributor

- Narrow belt conversion damped pulley

- Electric radiator fan

 

now comes the question of the exhaust system:

At the moment there's nothing wrong with the twin pipe system, but i'd like to replace the exhaust with the new one, for both performance and sound reasons (ok, and the looks).

From what i've seen and read, the manifold of TR4A seems to be rather well made and not too restricting, so i'm not sure if i should be changing that before doing any more serious work on the engine. However, in case i should be thinking of changing it - which one to go for?

Phoenix or TriumphTune sold by Moss?

I couldn't find the bore diameter for those two - from tuning Minis i've learned that fitting too large an exhaust can actually decrease the performance through slowing the gasses. Is Phoenix of a larger bore compared to TT (SAH) - or after fitting a Y pipe on the TT manifold it becomes the same diameter between the two?

 

I was thinking of getting the Phoenix exhaust to fit to the stock manifold for now - would it be possible to change the manifold later on without some serious work on the exhaust?

 

What would be your thoughts on this matter?

Exhaust recommendations?

Manifold recommendations?

Cam recommendations?

 

Cheers!

Luka

Link to post
Share on other sites

Luke

 

Good lad for diving in and buying it. Welcome to the forum from Australia. The car looks like a good start and it will give you lots of laughs and smiles - enjoy it every time you drive it

 

I'm just building a 89mm fast road engine and got a set of extractors from the US which are polished Stainless, look the goods, reasonable price and an alternative to the Pheonix and TT options. Send me a PM (private message i with your email if you ant the details)

 

Please keep us informed of the progress as you go through the rectification works

 

I'd do brakes urgently - my experience with both my 6 and 4 is that they get ignored by previous owners because they work even though they are very dodgy

 

Good luck

 

Graze

Link to post
Share on other sites

Luka,

 

Welcome to the Forum from Canada.

 

Looks a good car for you to improve as you drive.

 

Cheers

 

Graeme

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Luka

Welcome to the club!

Assuming there are no rust problems or other bodges uncovered, in my book I would tackle the brakes, steering and suspension, including any upgrades, before any engine/performance considerations - power is nothing without control.

Cosmetic stuff can be done anytime.

Good luck

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys! Great to se that the TR virus is nicely spread over the entire world :)

 

Thanks for the comments - of course, i agree with Ian, i will be doing Brakes, Dynamo repair, Carb rebuild and rear suspension sorting first of all, then perhaps full rebush of suspension with poly bushes.

 

I'd like to get your opinion on suspension options - mainly on springs - i'd like to raise the rear and lower the front a bit without making the teeth to come out. The car will be driven for pleasure rather than plain speed, so i'm thinking of being more on the stock side rather than fully stiff fast road/race prepared suspension.

 

Should i get springs as a set front+rear, and if so, could you recommend some? I was thinking of going with the TR Shop as they are situated in London from where i can have a van to pick up the bulky and heavy parts and have them delivered to my doorstep (it's ridiculous what the postal services charge for that sort of things to send to Serbia)

Any thoughts?

 

As for the shocks, i was under the impression that the rear lever arms if in good order do their work on a quite acceptable level and that i shouldn't rush to have them replaced with the telescopic conversion, right? And for the front i was thinking GAZ - reasonable price, easily adjustable.

One thing however i couldn't get - do the TR4As come stock with these DAS9/DAS10 or is that a completely different set that is purchased as an upgrade?

 

Many thanks once again!

 

Cheers!

Luka

Link to post
Share on other sites

Luka, TR Shop are very good for pretty much all the bits you will need, Rear shocks I would stick with levers but slightly uprated and use the TR6 rear springs, Front springs I would check to see if they have spacers fitted before going any further and fit Spax shocks. Blue poly bushes all round the suspension is your best bet. Rebuild the brakes as standard as they are more than adequate. With carbs rebuilt and a good exhaust the engine has plenty of power though if you want to go up to 89mm that will give even more grunt. I would stick with standard cam as its still a good one. Get your distributor rebuilt properly and keep the points as its much easier for you being a bit out of the way. Then just drive the wheels off it!

Stuart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys!

 

Yeah, after buying the TR, my friend (president of Serbian association of historic vehicles) and I have entered 2 classic car meetings in Slovenia - the first one was a fantastic international FIVA meeting of pre war cars and motorcycles, with fantastic examples of Jaguars, Skodas, Humbers, Fiats and so on. But the impression that i was by far the youngest chap there. The other meeting was a club meeting (Skofljica) where the cars were from all eras. But still can't figure out why is owning an oldtimer associated with being on the old side. It's loads more fun than anything you can buy now. Well for me at least - but again, i might be a bit odd.

 

I've owned recently a 2013 BMW M135i xDrive whic has a 3 litre straight 6 engine with a turbo, pushing 320bhp on all 4 wheels. A bloody rocket. I bought it to be an ultimate toy, but a toy you can use on a daily basis. It did even manage to average 29mpg (9.6l/100km) of just city driving over 450km!

And then came the 850cc (34bhp when new, at the time surely no more than 25-27hp) Morris Mini Minor with dodgy Hydrolastic suspension, and i found that i was hoping for nice weather so that i can go to work in a Mini.

I've sold the BMW, as the family is expanding and replaced it with a 5 series 2 litre diesel for cruising and a safe enviroment for the baby, and didn't miss the fantastic 3.0L engine of the old car for one moment. What i do miss is driving the Mini which is being restored.

 

 

Back on topic:

 

I have to thank you for the help! I think i have my mind set on what i need and what to change/order:

 

- SU HS6 Carb rebuild set

- Full Brake rebuild (master cylinder, caliper pistons and seals, rear cylinders, pads and discs, drums and shoes, braided hoses)

- Clutch service (master and slave cylinder rebuild, new hose)

- Service the dynamo (until i get the 18ACR conversion and the narrow belt)

- Blue Poly bush set for the entire car

- Uprated TR6 rear springs

- 2 tonnes of petrol :D

 

I'll be picking up the car tomorrow morning from the customs, so i'll be reporting on the work ;)

 

Cheers!

 

Luka

Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings, guys!

 

It's been a fantastic weekend! i've taken the TR from the customs and straight away got involved with adjustin/setting-up the carbs. It was running like ****, so a big set-up was needed!

- Tightening of the linkages, adding additional spring so the throttle goes fully back as you take your foot off

- Adjusting the jets fully flush with the housing, then turning 2 full circles anti clockwise to add some petrol

- Balancing idle of the carbs using Gunson Carbalancer - (great tool!),

- Setting up the exact mixture using Colotrune (glass spark plug)

- Adjusting the distributor timing by ear - advancing until the enigne revs are at the maximum, then backing up a few degrees to avoid detonations.

 

Covered some 300km since than, and it was great great fun! A big plus came in the form of weather - i'll need some sunscreen seriously.

The only issue i've had so far was when i had to refuel (i add 15-25l only, not going past 1/2 mark of the tank as the rubber from the filler cap to the tank is shot and the smell of petrol in the cabin is just unbearable) - i had to switch from a mixture of 100 and 98 octane petrol to 95 octanes (that's advertised octane level - god only knows what it actually is) i've encountered detonations.

Well i believe that's detonations (never had them before on any car) - it only happened if i were to add some serious stress on the engine from 2000rpm onwards, and manifested as if i had some pebbles in the front exhaust box or manifold jumping about making rattling noise. As soon as i lift-off the sound disappears. Luckily it happened just before home - so as soon as i parked i've retarded the dizzy a bit - i guess the issue is solved now - we'll see tomorrow morning.

 

 

Another question regarding suspension - sorry i am boring :/

 

I've done some reading on springs (no info on TR4A, mainly TR6) - and if i'm not mistaken the idea is to have either standard 312lbs or 390lbs at the front and

from 350lbs to 390lbs or even 420lbs at the rear - however that's TR6 with a heavier engine up front and more power to make the rear to sag i guess more than a standard-ish TR4A can.

So what would be your advice? The car is rattling quite a lot as it is at the moment - but the rear is bottoming out on a regular basis, especially if i have a passenger on board...

 

I'm looking for a firm suspension that's not really uncomfortable or shaking the car apart on every bump (the roads here aren't any good unfortunately), and i will be doing quite a bit of travelling in the car.

 

Would just upgrading the rear to 350 do the trick or should i go higher to - 390/390 front and rear?

I'd like a regular to a slightly below regular ride height, but without loosing teeth on every bump - is there a compromise at all?

Some logic tells me that a combination of TT4001 (slightly lowered 390lbs 6.70" compared to stock 312lbs 6.75") at the front and TT4212 at the rear (std height 390lbs 8.85") or even TR6 standard GSV1001 (350lbs 9") at the rear would be best?

 

Cheers!

 

Luka

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great looking car! I'm sure your car is not a familiar sight on the road in your country! :)

 

(BTW, a little survey: would you've become a member here on the forum when you'd had to pay 46 GBP (50 euros) in advance / before being able to post here?)

 

Menno

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Luka,

 

Welcome from France, a good choice with this TR4 and the key point is enjoy it.

 

Regards

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys!

 

Well, i've encountered quite an issue with the TR the other day... As i said - i've noticed the detonation/ping issue lately, so i tried to correct it by retarding the ignition timing a bit. It wasn't enough as it turns out, the car was still detonating. So i've retarded it some more. Then it started running a bit dodgy, so i presumed that the detonations are occuring because my mixture was a bit too lean - and went on to advance the timing and add a bit of fuel by unscrewing the jet. Well that's when things got really bad. With the car running, the old jet has given in. The little hose from the float chamber to the jet has snapped clean off. With the engine running and spilling petrol quite close to the exhaust manifold. So after a quick action of switching off the car and stopping the pump i've managed to avoid a fire. The car is parked now and i will be getting some more than necessary parts for the rebuild.

No more pushing luck, thank you!

 

Brakes and fuel system full rebuild before being on the road again, closely followed by suspension overhaul (all the bushes) and rear springs replacement

 

@ Menno,

 

As it turns out there are 3 TR4A IRSs in Belgrade! One being restored at the moment - also Signal red, and one white with Surrey Top.

 

hmm - to be honest i wouldn't like that, however I will definitely get the membership. Not sure about the thing having to pay to be able to post, but some parts of the forum should be locked. Thinking from the aspect of future TR owners looking for an advice before buying a car in the first place, so it'd be a bit too much to pay 50 quid to be able to ask a question. And from what i get here, people are more than friendly and willing to help!

 

Great place this is :)

 

Can't wait till Friday - a short visit to London, and i literally have from 1pm to find a suit and shoes for the wedding and go and spend a fortune in the TR Shop. I believe i'll be attending my own wedding in a pair of jeans, t shirt and sneakers :D

 

Cheers

 

Luka

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers for the advice Menno!

 

I've contacted TR Shop - i'm quite impatient to get it running again and shipping to Serbia will take a while, so i guess for the weekend i'll do a full carb rebuild

 

The funny thing is that i've done the mixture setup using colortune, and at around 2,000rpm it was a proper colour. Also, after 60 miles i've checked the sparkplugs and they seemed to confirm a perfect mixture, slight broze colour... I guess that means that either the needles are **** or that the pistons don't move freely or fast enough to allow enough petrol to go into the cylinders, leaning the mixture and causing the detonation... I'll also try with thinner oil in the carb damper - i had to use mineral 20w50 engine oil...

 

But we'll see when i rebuild the carbs. Hopefully no more issues.

 

Would you recommend SM needle or going stock?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, i thought that thicker oil prevents the piston from moving up as much as it needs to in short acceleration bursts, and that more of the needle sits in the jet, leaning the mixture?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it's due to the increased air speed over the jet which draws more fuel on transient opening of the throttle butterflies. Peter Cobbold is the resident SU expert.

Edited by peejay4A
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 11 months later...

Hi guys! It's been quite a while since i last wrote, but that's not to say that i haven't been driving or working on my TR4A.

 

Since i last wrote, i've completely rebuilt SU carbs, new jets, new needles, new shafts and butterflies, everything cleaned and stuff... It runs great! And i managed to cover a few thousand miles until winter nap in the garage.

 

Here are some photos from the last season when we covered Belgrade's Concours d'Elegance and a photoshoot by "Autoslavia" http://www.autoslavia.com/, a few local guys covering classic cars all over the region.

 

12011212_10100303660261210_5182954908078

 

FBDF3C0D-339B-4304-8A01-844559CB6055_zps

 

92BAFFDF-FE0B-4366-A3C2-22594A741C2F_zps

 

B1B0FE5C-B5B5-467C-8170-A23E93C6211B_zps

 

A6BE88B0-40A4-46E4-919C-E6E42467DD5F_zps

 

EACEAEB2-0CED-4E85-AAB2-7CD739AC8937_zps

 

6620A605-004C-4034-AE30-71D3584C9FC9_zps

 

7DB5F036-CF50-4AC2-BCC5-47066F510542_zps

 

http://www.autoslavia.com/izmedu-ljubavi-i-voznje/#.V03r4fl97IU

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, i've used last year to get to know the car, and few things were apparent:

- the rear was waaay to low and the standard 280lbs springs were shot

- oil leak was getting worse - i was dreading that it's related to rear seal, but when i took a good look, it seems that it's actually OK, it's the head that's causing the main leaks, mostly from pushrod tubes - Something i'll have to tackle really soon as it's getting unbearable.

 

 

Came spring and things needed to be sorted out! So, i've got in touch with TR Shop and got myself:

- new front calipers, pads and discs

- new rear cylinders, shoes and fittings

- new rubber hoses

- master cylinder seal kit

- clutch master & slave seal kit

- TT4216 rear coil springs with black (tr shop's) poly pads and lever arm poly bushes

- rear bump stops

 

This is the state of the car at the moment:

E559D693-9FC4-4788-8BA5-F9183C1D7F8E_zps

 

391627C7-4AB6-42C2-B6BC-EF60B8F3AB9E_zps

 

9F4A137B-E6B8-4A77-A3CE-2BF153629EDB_zps

 

72A6D442-1E46-4DB6-B96D-8125B90A2FCC_zps

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aaaand now a few questions..

 

- with the entire rear suspension down, i need to take axle rebuild into consideration - outer UJs are without grease nipples and seem a bit rusty - they do work, but i guess it'd be best to swap them and give the axle a proper clean, lube and new gaiter. But, which UJs to get?

Would standard ones do the job (7.50 pounds at TR Shop) or do the GKN uprated ones do make sense at 33 quid a piece? The car won't do any racing though...

however, would this do the trick?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-I-DEFENDER-RANGE-ROVER-CLASSIC-GKN-UNIVERSAL-JOINTS-X-2-/360743638362?hash=item53fdff155a:m:mncPaOUV1O-FF-H-zyYHmCw

 

- as for the hub - there's a bit of grinding noise when turning them, like some sand has gotten in. Should i consider replacing them or is there a technique to give them a sort of a clean without taking them apart? if going with replacement ones, it seems that i have 3 options:

- refurbished @ 265 gbp

- new @ 430 gbp (new from TR Shop - Bastuck?)

- new uprated @ 480 gbp (goodparts)

From what i understand, the issue of breakage happens when the shaft has suffered sufficient metal fatigue, so would refurbished ones be a safe bet for many thousands of miles, or should i invest in a pair of new ones (in which case to be honest it makes more sense to get the uprated ones which are some 10% pricier than the original style new ones)

 

any suggestions more than welcome!

 

Cheers guys!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.