jojim65 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, Does anyone have a CJ Autos lift model number CL02 or a Strongman Tamar scissor lift and if you do would you mind giving me a quick review and if possible a picture or two. I might have the opportunity to buy one or the other at a very good price. My garage is a standard suburban width and 1 1/2 lengths long so I will never be able to fit a proper lift nor do I find axle stands particular pleasant to work under. http://www.cjautos.eu/product_p/cl02.htm http://sm-t.co.uk/product/tamar-2-8-ton-mobile-scissor-lift/ Thanks Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Hi, Does anyone have a CJ Autos lift model number CL02 or a Strongman Tamar scissor lift and if you do would you mind giving me a quick review and if possible a picture or two. I might have the opportunity to buy one or the other at a very good price. My garage is a standard suburban width and 1 1/2 lengths long so I will never be able to fit a proper lift nor do I find axle stands particular pleasant to work under. http://www.cjautos.eu/product_p/cl02.htm http://sm-t.co.uk/product/tamar-2-8-ton-mobile-scissor-lift/ Thanks Jim Hi Jim, i would love one of those. Lucky bu$$er Edit: - Buy both and I will have the other one if they are a good price. Edited April 14, 2015 by Kevo_6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Someeone on Talk Morgan has just bought a CJAuto one. http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/266971/1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi Jim, I don't have a Tamar but have a Strongman Clifton with the two separate platforms which I find great. However a point about the Tamar or the CJ Autos equivalent I think they both have travelling feet used in the scissor action which if you have a "soft" floor covering (I have the rubber/plastic floor mats about 5mm thick) will make a mess of them with the weight of the car on it. Also there is a lot of "junk" between the ramps which you'll have to work around, maybe not a deal breaker but worth considering. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I noticed the Strongman is rated for 220 volts, and needs a 16A supply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grumpy2 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I used to have something very similar to the CJ one shown but it was german made. It was fantastic for restoring my car (MG - sorry) except for a couple of issues, the structure is a pain when working under the car fitting exhausts, brakepipes etc; the hydraulic pump and piping was always getting in the way and it's actually quite tall and needed a ramp at the sides to allow the car to drive over the car lift. I think the TR is lower than the MG so this could be more of a problem. I wouldn't buy another, nor would I buy the other type shown as it has the same restriction under the car and the rolling heels would likely be an issue. this is what I intend to buy for my next full restoration in a few years time. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOBILE-SCISSOR-CAR-LIFT-VEHICLE-LIFT-RAMP-HOIST-3000Kg-UNIVERSAL-UNIT-/251893767932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa609defc Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I noticed the Strongman is rated for 220 volts, Thats what comes out of the sockets in this country now. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) I noticed the Strongman is rated for 220 volts, and needs a 16A supply. My Strongman Clifton works from my Single phase house to garage supply off standard contact breakers at 16A. As I said there's a lot of junk underneath on the Tamar the C J Autos and a couple of other similar designs on the market, but if you get it cheap enough maybe you can persuade yourself to work around it. +1 for the Automotech 7530,that was my choice to buy new before I found my Strongman Clifton (used, but only a little) at a third of the price, these two lifts are very similar for spec. Until you have the clear space down the centre (albeit with moveable crossmembers I've made to pick up on the narrow chassis members with 820mm between the ramps) you don't appreciate what a boon it is for engine, gearbox, and exhaust work. Especially where you have that job where access from the top and bottom is essential with a couple of minutes work to be done from either aspect and you can lift or drop the car accordingly without having to rework jacks and axles stands to get access. Mick Richards Edited April 14, 2015 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Thats what comes out of the sockets in this country now. Stuart. Maybe where you are Stuart, but in most of the UK it's still 240V, but we have to use the nominal 230V for calculations. 220V is within the allowed range of between 216.2V and 253.0V. If you're only getting 220V for prolonged periods, you need to contact your DNO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewMAshton Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hello I have the CJ Autolift, I crank it by hand rather than use a drill, just not bothered to try the drill. To get over the height of the lift I made 4 low ramps out of 6" x 1", three different lengths nailed together so the car ends up 3" higher, easy to slide the Autolift under. If I am working on the wheels or front and rear I leave the lift in place, if I want to get to the middle I lower the car onto axle stands and move the lift. It is a substantial piece of kit that weighs 2.5cwt all in, broken down it fitted in the back of my Audi A3. The option to tilt the front or rear is very useful. There are pics and videos of the thing in use on the manufacturers website, Cheers, Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 I used to have something very similar to the CJ one shown but it was german made. It was fantastic for restoring my car (MG - sorry) except for a couple of issues, the structure is a pain when working under the car fitting exhausts, brakepipes etc; the hydraulic pump and piping was always getting in the way and it's actually quite tall and needed a ramp at the sides to allow the car to drive over the car lift. I think the TR is lower than the MG so this could be more of a problem. I wouldn't buy another, nor would I buy the other type shown as it has the same restriction under the car and the rolling heels would likely be an issue. this is what I intend to buy for my next full restoration in a few years time. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOBILE-SCISSOR-CAR-LIFT-VEHICLE-LIFT-RAMP-HOIST-3000Kg-UNIVERSAL-UNIT-/251893767932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa609defc Gary This is the lift I have Gary, After a few, lets say niggles ( well documented here on the forum ) I can recommend it as a great piece of kit.....paid for itself in no time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Maybe where you are Stuart, but in most of the UK it's still 240V, but we have to use the nominal 230V for calculations. 220V is within the allowed range of between 216.2V and 253.0V. If you're only getting 220V for prolonged periods, you need to contact your DNO. 220V is the EU standard voltage which is usually quoted on most electrical goods that are sold throughout the EU. Its also all that the UK generators are obliged to supply these days. When your in a rural area like we are low voltages are the norm especially in the evenings when everyone is cooking their dinner. (FWIW in areas of rural France Ive seen it down to 185V !!) Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Sorry Stuart, (and anyone else irritated by the off-topic) but the standard harmonised voltage across Europe, including the UK, is 230V. See BS EN 50160: 2010 "Voltage characteristics of electricity supplied by public electricity networks". The DNOs are mostly still supplying 240V though, and most domestic and small industrial premises in the UK see around 240V most of the time.. If that lift is really designed for 220V, (which used to be the standard across most of southern Europe) it is likely to overheat in use at 240V. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I have run 220 volt rated items all over UK and Europe on varying voltages between not a lot and around 285V and never had a problem yet. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I noticed the Strongman is rated for 220 volts, and needs a 16A supply. I've just checked the Strongman site and the Tamar and the Clifton are both rated for 240v single phase. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Yes, they've changed the site! Must have seen this thread. They still say on the product description "CE approved with RoHS compliance/Noise 70dB/ 2.2kw Motor/Voltage 220v", which doesn't agree with the line that states 16A 240V. I'd be interested to see the Declaration of Conformity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Yes, they've changed the site! Must have seen this thread. They still say on the product description "CE approved with RoHS compliance/Noise 70dB/ 2.2kw Motor/Voltage 220v", which doesn't agree with the line that states 16A 240V. I'd be interested to see the Declaration of Conformity. The 16 amp rating is not trying to agree with the 2.2kw 220Volts in simpistic terms. The mention of 240Volts in the advert is basically to stop confusing people who still believe that the UK has an official voltage of 240 volts which we do have at home unless we switch on lots of high current equipment. Ok the other line you quoted with 220v still confuse them. As virtually all these industrial motors do not have a power factor of 1, more like 0.63 therefore the running current is around 16 amps . I treated myself to a two post ramp in 2013 and the motor faceplate advises, 220 V, 2.2 Kw, 16 Amps The problem with the motors on the lifts is they have a very high stall amperage requirement to get them started. While 220v 2.2kw suggest a simplistic continious 10 amp current rating in reality for a second or so to get the electric motor turning you need somewhere in the region of 70 amps or so. If you only had the normal 16 amp or 20 amp circuit breaker which is B rated in your consumer unit they will trip around at most 48 to 60 amps rspectively therefore you can get nuisance tripping especially if your garage lights are from the same circuit breaker that makes things dangerous. Strongmantools specify a 16 amp C or D rated circuit breaker to only feed the lift motor. The C rated breaker has a trip rating of 80 amps and the D rated breaker a trip rating of 160 amps. On my 2 post a 16amp C rated circuit breaker in the garage consumer unit would trip suggesting the motor stall current was over 80 amps. Further research found a quoted figure of I believe 82 amps for the stall current. Therefore a 25 amp C rated breaker was found in the installers box of tricks and the lift worked with no problems after that. While the face plate rating of the motors is 220V, the voltage at the lift when my lift is lifting is very near 220V and I have a heavy 10mmsq cable going out to the garage. Therefore the actual working voltage is at the faceplate voltage. Edited April 17, 2015 by Eddie Cairns Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Eddie, it sounds to me that your installation does not comply with BS7671 (the IEE Wiring Regulations) on voltage drop. How long is your 10mm2 cable? Your installer seems to have done things the wrong way round, by installing the lift then scratching around for an MCB that didn't trip on the starting current. OK, I guess the circuit existed before the lift, but in an ideal world the starting current would have been considered by the circuit designer, as well as the length of the cable, the installation method, and the protective device. Anyway, that's not my point . If the hoist is intended for use at 220V then the manufacturer's documentation should say so. If intended for use at 240V, then that's what it should say. It is not the manufacturer's job to try to second-guess people who are "confused" about the UK's supply voltage. Sorry if I seem pedantic about this, but electrical standards are what I did for a living! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Eddie, it sounds to me that your installation does not comply with BS7671 (the IEE Wiring Regulations) on voltage drop. How long is your 10mm2 cable? Your installer seems to have done things the wrong way round, by installing the lift then scratching around for an MCB that didn't trip on the starting current. OK, I guess the circuit existed before the lift, but in an ideal world the starting current would have been considered by the circuit designer, as well as the length of the cable, the installation method, and the protective device. Anyway, that's not my point . If the hoist is intended for use at 220V then the manufacturer's documentation should say so. If intended for use at 240V, then that's what it should say. It is not the manufacturer's job to try to second-guess people who are "confused" about the UK's supply voltage. Sorry if I seem pedantic about this, but electrical standards are what I did for a living! No problem at all with you thinking my installation may not be to spec, in my world pedantic is good when it comes to safe installations but I designed it to the 17th edition of the regs using the onsite guide and had the calculations checked by a chartered electrical engineer in the office I was working in at the time to pick up any mistakes. So I had no worries on that matter He made no mention of the start up current of the lift and was happy for me to use the faceplate rating with my 25% add on for the lift. If you were designing a garage installation in your day job would you contact the lift vendor to get these start up current numbers as the one i talked to including some very big names in garage equipment said we always use 2.5mmsq to run our single phase lifts and when I tried to talk about current loadings it was as if I was from Mars. I had installed the electrical supply and wiring to the garage with an electrician inspecting it and saying that he would not have gone to the heavier TC&E for the lights and the lift! I use the 10mmsq SWA out to the garage and a 6mm TC&E cable from the garage consumer unit to the lift. I had to use 2.5mmsq tc&e in the lighting circuit to get below the 3% voltage drop for lighting in the 17th edition. I have rechecked my readings taken in December 2013 on a very cold day, I agree my multimeters were not calibrated which I assumes yours are when you do a site visit. The voltage at the house consumer unit was 242 volts with a current drain in the house of about 3 amps. With the garage heating, lighting, compressor and lift working the voltage reduced to 236 volts at the house consumer unit. With the same electrical load in the garage and checking the compressor was still working, the voltage at the 2 post lift terminals was according to my notes 226 volts a drop of 10 volts and the 17 edition calcs advised a calculated voltage drop of 9.7 volts That is below 5% voltage drop in the voltage from the house consumer unit to the equipment termination point in the garage. Maybe I should have measured from the electricity boards fuse. The installation was designed to give a 3% voltage drop to the lighting and to worst case 5% voltage drop to all other equipment in the garage. Therefore I'm happy that the voltage drop does in fact reflect the 17th edition. With regards to the installer doing it the wrong way round electrical wise, these guys are mechanical guys who lift heavy things and set them up and I have yet to meet one with any electrical or for that matter reinforced concrete design qualifications. If I can ask you how would you write an advert and I know it is not your day job, when the standard far east manufactured lift motors are 220 volt and the normal person in the Uk thinks he is getting 240 volts to all his appliances, Would you just leave out the mention of the 220 volt motor or would you add an explanation in the description of the product about how a 220 volt motor is safe in a 240 volt enviroment which most people would just gloss over. I for one would find that a difficult decision. eddie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Eddie, that all sounds pretty good. My criticism was not aimed at you, but both at the installer - as you say, they're mechanical guys, but if their business is installing electrical equipment they should be competent electrically (as well as the structural stuff), and at the lift manufacturers. I have written adverts for electrical equipment (and catalogues, and training materials) and I wouldn't state different supply voltages on different lines of a document. When I worked in marketing I'd also make sure that the equipment was suitable for its intended market, one aspect of which would be to use a 230V motor for countries where the nominal supply is 230V. It's not just the motor, but the control gear. A 220V motor is not necessarily safe at 240V, although in a vehicle lift application I would guess you'd get away with it because the motor is not under full load for long. The starter might be a different matter. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 No problem at all with any constructive comment good or bad I assume we are both thick skined enough for that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I hope so too! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jojim65 Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi, Finally got myself a Strongman scissor lift and as you can see now safely installed in my garage. Car hasn't been up in the air yet but windscreen should fit nicely between the rafters so I can get full elevation. Very pleased so far with its construction and ease of use, anyone need some axle stands? Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McMuttley Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Stop bragging Jim interested to see pics when car raised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Nothing wrong with buying a new tool. Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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