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Having trouble with TR4 axle oil seals. Oil leaks through the seal and oils the rear brake shoes which does nothing for your braking

Replaced the seals with new ones - didn't work - ground the axle down to get a smooth surface and tried some seals - made a drift to make sure the seals were in square, bought new wider seals still leaked

Help!!

Have been to local oil seal place and bought 4 thin seals to go in 2 at a time

Surely someone else has solved this problem already!!

Regards

Hopefully

MichaelH

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A real cause of rear axle seal leak can be too much end float on the axle. The two axles are separated by a short aluminium spacer and the three parts act as one item in regard to end float. You can liken the rear axle assembly to the front wheel hub and axle. The rear axle housing is like the front hub, the two axles and spacer is like the front axle and the two rear wheel bearings are like the two front wheel bearings.

 

To adjust the front wheel bearings to stop excessive radial play, and end float we use the wheel nut. To adjust this at the rear we use shims under the bearing carrier. If there is excessive end float there will be excessive radial play and the seals are not capable of handling this play. They will leak.

 

A quick check is to jack the rear up (both wheels) and give one wheel a good pull out. Then do the same to the other wheel. This will give the axles their max end float. Now try to "wobble" one wheel. If there is excessive end float it will usually show excessive play just like the front wheel will with a maladjusted wheel bearing. . The best way is to use a DTI and follow the manual.

 

This may not be your problem but most people do not understand how the rear axle all comes together and tend to ignore the end float as a cause of rear axle leaks.

 

Brian

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Agreed but in fact the end float is the recommended 4-6 thou on my DTI and there is the recommended button in the LSD.

I suspect that one of the causes is the sticky tyres and side movement on corners pushes the drive train across so that the propshaft u/j rattle the side of the tunnel and the vibration may upset the oil seals ? The noise is quite alarming when it happens.

Plans at present are to create a fine polished finish on the half shaft and fit twin oil seals as the axle rebate for the oil seals is 1/2 inch deep (as suggested by Christian). Also looking at replacing the gearbox mount which may be allowing the propshaft to move across.

Protem thanks for any advice

Regards

Michael

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Hi Michael,

 

at the risk of stating the obvious, and/or teaching you to suck eggs . . . . . Moss produce a standard and a harder 'competition' gearbox mount.

 

The comp version considerably restricts gearbox movement under excess stress, in particular it does help keep the propshaft from being pushed out of line . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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Michael

 

Your u/js hit the tunnel??? There must be a lot of movement! The noise would be alarming and there would be a some obvious damage Also it would be obvious on the gear stick.

 

Do you have a rod to hold the rear end in place? I do not see the rear mount flexing to the degree that the tail shaft would hit the tunnel, at least not without failing. It may but I find it hard to imagine.

 

Brian

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The noise is alarming it occurs at the maximum of turn and I haven't got my hand on the gearstick at the time, The car is on axle stands to readdress the oil seals so I will have a look for damage and photograph it if I can.

Certainly the nose of the diff will move up and can hit the top of the tunnel when accelerating from stand still- sorted by ensuring the u bolts holding the axle to the springs are tight and torqued up. This is only a problem at the start.

I will put up any photos I can get

Michael

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To stop side to side movement you need a Panhard rod or a Watts linkage but depending on which class you are running in you may not be allowed to use them.

Stuart.

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Mike

 

A couple of things;

 

1. Chris's oil seal solution - proven to work on a number of quick TR4's;

2. Joe Alexander and his son Sean had a batch of high strength non shear gearbox mounts made. The MOSS products are not strong enough for a car with an LSD unless you wrap in a 'World Cup' type mounting box and even then one serious power turn and they shear.

3. Anti tramp bars on the front half of the spring;

4. 195 lb six leaf springs (max rating) on a steel bodied car, 185 lb on alloy panelled car. Caution here as too stiff is bad.

5. Steel u bracket saddle under the soring centre

6. Really good damping - twin valve DAS 9 or high rate DAS10 or telescopics with turrets directly above the spring centre.

 

I use all of the above BST82B and don't get axle wriggle problems, but I do still get axle tramp and consequently am very hard on springs, which bend and warp. I can't go any stiffer as I lose handling and get too much rear end lift on bumps.

 

The game is stiff location, soft as you can springs and very very good damping.

 

You won't be allowed to run a 4 link for location (and you don't need to as you can use the springs / outer chassis edge to do this) nor a watts linkage or panhard rod. None were homologated and few ran in period in this form.

 

Been there, done all that. Solution is behind my seat in BST82B.

 

Regards

 

Tony

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Thanks for your contributions Guys

I will continue to work on the options suggested

Michael

PSS what is a soring centre? which needs a steel u bracket?

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Thanks for your contributions Guys

I will continue to work on the options suggested

Michael

PSS what is a soring centre? which needs a steel u bracket?

I think that should read "Spring centre"

Stuart.

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To stop side to side movement you need a Panhard rod or a Watts linkage but depending on which class you are running in you may not be allowed to use them.

Stuart.

I thought a Panhard or Watts would not be allowed ;)

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Hi

Replaced the gearbox mounting (which was completely u/s) with new Moss comp version

See photos of the inside gearbox cover

regards

Michael

post-9449-0-51084200-1427907622_thumb.jpg

post-9449-0-03544400-1427907658_thumb.jpg

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Hi Michael

 

After your phone call yesterday you got me thinking! Not keeping up to date with the forum as the TR4 is in (temporary!) retirement at the moment, I duly read this thread and yes I did originally get the same loud noise on hard cornering sometimes. I found the gearbox x-member had bent and and its chassis mounts cracked so I welded and gusseted both which increased the strength of the original arrangement by a considerable degree. This cured it; I do still get a big racket on very hard cornering but that is the target tags for the tripmeter which are attached to the front prop flange and stick out a bit. I have a grp tunnel cover which I have split and bolted so it's a two-minute job to access the front of the prop and trip sensor, although I assume it will be the same dimensions as the original plastic item. I seem to remember it only does it on right handers now, touching the left hand side of the tunnel. I always suspected the old chassis was bent! However I can't see that movement in the front of the prop due to gearbox mount would affect axle oil seals.

 

As I said yesterday I have never had an axle oill seal leak in five years of road and stage rallies and I'm still on standard hubs and seals. I take your point that the tyres slide on rallies and grip on circuits, but I have done several tarmac stages events - and Blyton sprint track - on my Dunlop D83J rally racers, not as sticky as your Yokos but in full sideways slides on rough surfaces I had expected hub and seal problems but they never happened - hence still on the standard setup. Don't mend what ain't broke! If it's not breather blockage causing pressurisation then centrifugal force is the next suspect, but it would have to be a loooong corner to get so much oil migration to the outside and even then I wouldn't think it would be under enough pressure to force past the seals.

 

Hope you get the problem nailed in due course.

 

Nigel

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