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Flexible rubber steering joints


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Just been assembling the column on our 4A and rather dubious about the flexible couplings. Seems that, if the things disintegrate, you'll have no steering whatsoever as there's no fail-safe that I can see.

 

Has this ever been known to happen ? Well, yes. I recall, back when I was a lad, a local solicitor's 3.4 Jag got stranded at the main crossroads in Welshpool town centre - the wheel was just spinning in his hands ! A few of us managed to get him to the side by tugging at the front wheels, then when we opened the bonnet we could see that the coupling had broken. Just as well he was barely moving !

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There is quite a lot of input on this topic in past threads. So far as I recall the discussions centred not on the rubber giving way but the lost motion in them due to squidge and the clamp design.

Essentially

- the design of the clamps that grip the splines can be improved by cutting out some metal to allow the clamp jaws to actually bend and grip.

- the all metal design used on the later cars is a form fit function replacement.

- you can use a slightly larger bolt size in the clamps

.

I was somewhat motivated to make this upgrade following my car developing independent front wheel steering :(, but fortunately whilst parking :). (The clamps had loosened after the P.O. had incorrectly re-assembled the column.

 

Mike

Edited by MikeF
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I used a compromise. A UJ on the lower coupling and a flexible on the upper one. The theory is that steering kick back is limited by the upper one, which can easily be checked over, and the lower one which is out of the way can be forgotten about.

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Thanks for the replies, everyone.

 

Assuming your pic is of a TR, Roger, you seem not to be using the standard bolts, which I think are countersunk (Allen heads) into the flexi coupling ?

 

I wasn't so much thinking of the splines being the weak point, rather the coupling itself. Which is what failed on the aforementioned 3.4, and the car wasn't very old then.

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The bolts are the Moss standard item

 

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/steering/steering-rack-column-wheel-tr4-4a.html

 

I have never seen /heard of a rubber coupling disintegrating although they can perish.

However the perishing process is slow. So a 6 monthly once over would find any problems.

 

The metal spline clamps have a built in problem that stops them from being fully tightened on the spline.

The bottom coupling is the one that will be loose as it is difficult to tighten at the best of times.

Cutting that little piece of metal out is the best mod' I've come up with.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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  • 3 months later...

Here are the 4A UJ's with a small piece of metal removed. This guarantees that the splines really do lock together.

 

Roger

 

attachicon.gifDSCF0079c.jpg

 

 

Hi Roger,

 

For some reason I cannot open photo. Would you mind reposting please?

 

I am not confident with my rubber UJ's and would like to replace.

 

Steven

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I use the TR6-type universal joints at both ends of the column. These I fitted a long while ago and I believe the Ford Escort type (as mentioned by Peter W, above) may be even better as there seems to have been a batch of inferior TR6-type around a while ago.

Perhaps because I have quite large tyres (195/65 on 5.5J steel rims), kick-back from potholes is acceptable.

Ian Cornish

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Fully agree with peejay's reply, have same on my 4A, original flexible coupling at top and forged UJ atbottom. As regards latter however note that www.burtonpower.com offers the heavy duty group 4 rally Escort coupling at £22.50 including VAT (their part no MP199). This is quite a bit less than Peter W's suggested supplier.

 

Tim

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Hi Steven,

the rubber UJ's are fine as long as they are in reasonable condition. As mentioned above, the perishing process (as opposed to the sodding process) is slow.

The arrow points to where metal should be removed. This allows the clamp to work

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

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For my money the Viva /Marina models used the same coupling as TR4/4A - they used to come with a steel band round them which once fitted you cut off and the rubber sprung out into place.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Viva-Chevette-Bedford-CF-Marina-Steering-Coupling-/161660322782

This is for bolts with hex heads not the TR6 items with recessed cap screws.

 

And this is the two couplings with the rubber all in one from the bog standard Escort, that does the TR4-6 range. I guess the steel U strap that might give some degree of steering should the rubber fail.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Escort-MKII-steering-Coupling-U-J-/301674914993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463d39e4b1

 

Cheers

Peter W

 

PS You could of course go all out quality on this little baby http://www.flyingspares.com/shop/lower-column-rubber-coupling-ur23270p.html

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Hi Peter,

it's funny you should mention the Marina-RR price differential for essentially the same part...

Last weekend I fitted a Marina joint I got locally for RM5 (about a quid) to a RR Shadow...works fine...I also replaced the bellows of the steering box with a TR rack gaiter...all fixed for a few pounds..

 

Going back to the orig posters question, on the RR the joint had disintegrated, the metal fully delaminated, part of the rubber missing....but the car still steered OK...in fact after replacing the joint I don't notice much difference...so those joints fail safe as the metal bits still interfere to transmit motion,

Edited by ctc77965o
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Peter W's mention of a band round the rubber (post 13, above) reminded me that I watched Neil Revington and Carl Kiddell fit a replacement rubber doughnut at an International a few years ago. Neil took a large Jubilee clip, placed it round the doughnut and then screwed the clip tighter and tighter until the bolts passed through. Simple and easy!

Ian Cornish

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+1. An old trick I used just the other day. Watch out for the jubilee clip screw contacting the paintwork though as you rotate the steering shaft to line up the bolts.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Where my steering column 'earthing' strap was knackered, I used the copper 'desoldering' tape you get at places like Tandy.

I would have thought this was a bit thin. better would be to strip the braiding off some old TV coax cable (RG58 or RG59 type)

 

Bob.

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Hi Peter,

the clamping effect on these couplings is very poor due to the bad design/manufacture of the spline clamp.

Have a look at my pic above - removing this little piece of metal on one side of the clamp will allow it to clamp fully.

 

If you haven't done this your clamp will not be clamped no matter how tight you screw it up.

 

You often see rust stains around these clamps because of the fretting due to 'untight' clamps.

 

Roger

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Hi Roger,

 

They tightened up pretty well. I think I removed some metal during the restoration, but that was over 25 years ago so can't be certain. They're solidly clamped now though, and still have a gap so could close up a little more if the splines wear.

 

Pete

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HI Pete,

in the pic on the above post the area of metal removal, where I have arrowed, is solid metal keeping the clamp apart.

 

When you screw the bolt down really hard you end up distorting the clamp towards its free end - in effect only half the diameter of the bolt actually does anything - but not enough

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Not sure I follow that Roger. I must be particularly thick today. (Then again I'm older than I was yesterday!) Are you removing metal to increase the width of the slot in the clamp, or what? I don't understand the "solid metal" that your arrow is pointing to.

 

Pete

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Hi Peter,

see the attached pic. The dotted triangle is solid metal from one side to the other of the clamp.

To the right of the dotted line the clamp is split and the clamp works fine.

Where the triangle is the clamp does not work. So the pinch bolt has a hard task.

 

By relieving the clamp with the 'U' shaped slot and cutting away the metal in the triangle along the clamp split the clamp works perfectly.

 

If you had the item in your hand it would become obvious - bl**dy hard to visualise without.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

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