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TR4 looking to buy, but what to look out for?


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Hi All,

 

I am new to the TR scene, but fairly well versed in the world of classics and hence here I am on a TR forum before I buy!

 

I am currently looking at a 1962 car that has been returned to the UK after being exported when new to the US. It was restored in the US a few years ago (not exactly sure) to what i would call a fair standard. Engine and running gear all seem ok, engine bay lovely and tidy, inner wings all nice, no rust and well presented. Even under the car, solid chassis, very clean not too caked in black goop, rear wheel arches clean (you can see the paint), so far so good and bonnet panel gaps look good. However, door gaps and boot are pretty awful, I realise that these cars would not have the panel gaps of modern or more expensive machinery of the time and most new restorations make vast improvements but what should I really expect. The gaps are pretty large but also they are not very even - its like it was fitted with new doors and bootlid but never fitted up prior to painting. The car is overall very presentable but its very much let down in these areas.

 

The photos I have don't really show the gaps very well but I will get some.

 

I am still doing my homework so please bear with me.

 

Many thanks

 

Andre

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What Alec has said is pretty much what I would be saying

to the seller to get the price down a bit. But the truth is, IMO,

a bit different.

 

Doors - you need the right approach to get a reasonable, as

in factory-standard, fit. This means trial fitting of wings before

painting and fitting doors.

There is a bit of adjustment possible in fitting the wings. If the

wings are just fitted first, assuming the doors will properly

fill the gap - - they probably won't.

Plus, the chassis mounting pads can also give some correction

to a sagging body/chassis, although if the chassis is sagging

too much, then structural repairs may be needed.

 

If you want a concours car, get the most sound but scruffy car

you can, as you are going to be doing everything anyway.

 

But - if you want a good road-going car, the one you are looking

at could well fit the bill, with a few adjustments.

(And 1962 TR4s are, of course, the best of the breed!!)

 

If you just wanted to cheat, then the door edges could be welded

and/or lead filled to achieve the required profile and only the doors

would require re-painted.

Just as important is how the doors shut (although mine need a

real bang, probably due to the correct door seal and draught

excluder!)

 

Post some photos for additional comments.

 

AlanR

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Welcome Andre.

 

Firstly you really have chapter and verse on this from the above comments, no argument there.

Sounds to me like the restoration ran out of money or patience to have a car as you describe, so much, so very good, and then doors and boot lid just fitted without much effort. That said, you make doors any size and shape you want really, but of course they will end up needing painting, maybe a big problem if the cars colour is just not as it should be, after being repaired and painted in the past.

You sound like someone who knows classics, and if you buy this car you will probably need to have the work done, these gaps being 'in your face,as it were'

Bottom line is, if you are not doing the work, but having the metalwork sorted, and then the car painted you are looking at least £3-4k

Maybe more, you need to buy the car accordingly.

John

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Perhaps not really the answer you are looking for;

 

Dont be in a Hurry to spend the money. Do an estimate of your budget and see Whats available.

Unless this car really is a bargain, it seems your are looking at details like panel gaps, this indeed will be in your face until fixed, but this will costs extra money, why not wait a little longer and see what pops up.

 

I would rather take a car with bit more scruffy looking interior or detailing in the engine compartment, because restoring this will cost less than start working on the body. This will probably end in a body off redoing the stuff previous owners lack to do.

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Perhaps not really the answer you are looking for;

 

Dont be in a Hurry to spend the money. Do an estimate of your budget and see Whats available.

Unless this car really is a bargain, it seems your are looking at details like panel gaps, this indeed will be in your face until fixed, but this will costs extra money, why not wait a little longer and see what pops up.

 

I would rather take a car with bit more scruffy looking interior or detailing in the engine compartment, because restoring this will cost less than start working on the body. This will probably end in a body off redoing the stuff previous owners lack to do.

Plus 1

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Super replies, many thanks.

 

OK so no one said, 'they all have bad gaps' which does point to a restoration that ran out of interest or money. I definitely don't want to start stripping down and having a load of work done (been there etc..). I would also prefer as suggested a car with a good body that just needs tidying up. However I may be able to negotiate and get the car for a good price, its definitely a car one wouldn't have to be too fussy about which is fine at the right price..

 

With values rising daily, its a difficult question.. what should I realistically (not dealer prices) pay for a very clean solid useable car. Oh and these days is there a difference in pricing (if buying in the UK) between LHD and RHD?

 

Thanks again for the advice.

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Super replies, many thanks.

 

OK so no one said, 'they all have bad gaps' which does point to a restoration that ran out of interest or money. I definitely don't want to start stripping down and having a load of work done (been there etc..). I would also prefer as suggested a car with a good body that just needs tidying up. However I may be able to negotiate and get the car for a good price, its definitely a car one wouldn't have to be too fussy about which is fine at the right price..

 

With values rising daily, its a difficult question.. what should I realistically (not dealer prices) pay for a very clean solid useable car. Oh and these days is there a difference in pricing (if buying in the UK) between LHD and RHD?

 

Thanks again for the advice.

If the body isn't rusty and the chassis is also not rusty or bent, its a good starting point, door gaps were never uniform, but on a TR4 the door gap at the rear top is 6-8mm and narrowing toward the bottom to about 4mm.

 

wings aren't really adjustable in a horizontal plane either front or rear, the door IS though, so if the floors are original ones you can fix it, if its had new floors and not done correctly its game over. or send it to Cornwall.

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If the shell is very good and also the chassis then you may well be better off buying that and then sorting out the gaps afterwards. You would be surprised what a few hours with everything slackened off can achieve if only to get them a bit more uniform.

Good cars are fetching some strong money now, depending on if you need the car to be L/hand drive or if in this country will make some difference to the price. In this country it would be worth less.

Stuart.

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If the body isn't rusty and the chassis is also not rusty or bent, its a good starting point, door gaps were never uniform, but on a TR4 the door gap at the rear top is 6-8mm and narrowing toward the bottom to about 4mm.

 

wings aren't really adjustable in a horizontal plane either front or rear, the door IS though, so if the floors are original ones you can fix it, if its had new floors and not done correctly its game over. or send it to Cornwall.

Its certainly not rusty, doesn't look bent (chassis looks clear of rust and repair welds and not obviously damaged) the gaps are 6-8mm but the doors or bootlid don't sit flush to the adjacent panels, it could well be adjustment, I'm going to have another look. Ill check floors etc.. now I know what to look for. Many thanks for the advice (i can why you recommend Cornwall).

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If the shell is very good and also the chassis then you may well be better off buying that and then sorting out the gaps afterwards. You would be surprised what a few hours with everything slackened off can achieve if only to get them a bit more uniform.

Good cars are fetching some strong money now, depending on if you need the car to be L/hand drive or if in this country will make some difference to the price. In this country it would be worth less.

Stuart.

Thank you, I really think I should look at this car again, could be nice with some fettling.

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Would it be better to pay someone to look at it first. I personally would never trust buying on the strength of a photo, as you well know Stuart. (the one at Bodmin, remember)

 

Dave

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Ideally, you should try to get a TR4 owner from your Local Group to accompany you - have a look in TR Action or at the Register's website for details of Group Leaders.

Two heads always better than one!

If you would prefer to be facing oncoming traffic, conversion to RHD is not a huge undertaking as the cars were designed to be easy to make LH or RH on the production line.

Ian Cornish

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Would it be better to pay someone to look at it first. I personally would never trust buying on the strength of a photo, as you well know Stuart. (the one at Bodmin, remember)

 

Dave

Yes not exactly as described that one!

Stuart.

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Hi Andre,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Lots of wise words above, but it all comes down to price if the car is solid.

 

Anything can be fixed on a TR, which is the good news.

 

Can I suggest adding something about yourself in your profile so we can get to know you a little.

 

All the very best.

 

Dave.

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Hi,

 

Thank you Dave, profile updated.. and agreed, price v condition is key.

 

Thank you also for the advice on LHD-RHD conversion, plus asking someone to view with me. The car is near JCT 18 of the M25. and I'm JCT 11.

 

All help very much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Andre

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Hi,

 

Thanks again for the advice. I've had another look at the car and after seeing a few, including one for sale at the recent auction at Sandown I think the panel gaps are ok and the rest of the car pretty ggod. Ive attached some photos, the boot and floor pans have either been repair reall well or are original as does much of the underside look. Their are a few pain blemishes, its certainly not a concours job, and what looks like not such a great patch up on the lower part of the b post where it meets the sill (please see phot0) runs and drives wel with good oil pressure with mininal leaks. Oil is fresh and no salad cream.. Do some TR4's come with a wooden dash or is that aftermarket?

 

Andre

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Hi Andre,

 

I cannot stress enough that you really need a knowledgeable person to view this car in respect of condition, etc.

 

Being manufactured in 1962 it should have a number of different features that were only present on the early production cars.

 

However maybe originality is of no interested to you, although in my view the degree of originality does affect the value of the car.

 

The B post looks to be a problem to many seams covered up, a poor repair at best or hiding some rot at worst - what does the other side look like?

 

Also both front inner wings appear to have signs of repair sections poorly let in, the black bonnet hinges should be body coloured, so presumably are replacements, all of which seems to suggests that at some point the car has had a front end collision?

 

What type of bonnet is fitted?, the very early cars had one with a short bulge for the carbs.

 

The small aluminium body number plate is missing? - i.e. the two holes in front of the cut-out.

 

The rocker cover is from a late model TR4 as it has a central breather.

 

The two horns are made by Clear Hooters and are the type that were fitted to the TR4A - all TR4's had Lucas horns.

 

In the boot, the bent plate for securing the spare wheel - I have not seen anything like that before - however it may well be a feature of an early production car?

 

Wooden covered dash panels were available on USA cars.

 

A 1962 car should have all domed glass instruments - the Speedo and Rev Counter appear to be domed, however the four smaller gauges look like they have flat glasses?

 

Also the temperature gauge is the type that was fitted to the TR4A, cannot clearly see the rest to comment.

 

From the small part of the seat base that can be seen, they are not like any of the three types of seats that were fitted to TR4's - to me they look like TR5 / TR250 seats.

 

Regards, Richard

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you again for the great advice. I have decided against the car for many of the reasons given in that advice, its probably a fairly good car but it does appear to have been 'restored' without any attention to detail, so its not the type of car i want.

 

Thanks again. Search continues..

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I don't know how to get this up but there looks to be a decent 1967 TR4a on the Austrian section of ClassicCarsForSale.co.uk . It's RHD and with a Surrey top. £12.500.

 

Dave

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I don't know how to get this up but there looks to be a decent 1967 TR4a on the Austrian section of ClassicCarsForSale.co.uk . It's RHD and with a Surrey top. £12.500.

 

Dave

Here you go http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/car-advert/triumph/tr4a/1967/300488/

Stuart.

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