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Guest ntc

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Hardly the end of UK rallying.

 

More like the application of common sense - a commodity which has all too often been lacking as far as rally organisers are concerned, and which too many rally spectators seem to lack entirely. Candidates for a Darwin award, underdeveloped sense of self-preservation.

 

The principles applying to race and speed events should have been applied to rallying decades ago, evolution is long overdue - and it's not rocket science.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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I think the sport is more resilient than the doom mongers above, phase in proper marshall training and licensing and somehow get into the mind of the occasional spectator how dangerous an out of control rally car can be.

 

Marshalls enjoy the sport as much as competitors and organisers, they will want to embrace being recognised as qualified and up to speed on all safety issues, this is the way to go and clubs should be given the opportunity by the MSA to run training seminars and qualification examinations, under MSA stewardship of course.

 

Spectators

This is much more difficult, resources of a club running a forest rally face enormous problems with spectators because they find there way in whether allowed or not, banning spectators does not work in the forests, but how do you keep them safe. they never imagine that where they stand a car could ever reach them, WRONG!!

 

John Worthing

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seems an essential and sensible approach, even if it means losing a few events until appropriate training and processes have been put in place. Of course, it wouldn't have been quite so dramatic if people used common sense but I guess many deaths amongst spectators at motor sport events on public roads and tracks are part of the evolutionary 'natural selection' process.

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Agree with above. I'm involved with rally organisation and with the provision of Rescue and Medical cover for rallies. The response to the Scottish Report in the rally community has been a recognition of the needs and a determination to achieve the goals outlined. Meanwhile, the MSA is convening a committee (doesn't it always?) that will look at the whole of the UK's rally and motor sport scene in the light of that report, which has many good suggestions.

 

What may be at an end, despite Cameron's declared enthusiasm for closed-road rallies, will be closed-road rallies, like the Jim Clarke. As the Report's Introduction says, rally fans are in two groups, knowledgeable enthusiasts and Joe Public. The first is well aware of the risks and do not put them selves in danger, except when their enthusiasm causes them to rush to the assistance of ditched car (Granite Rally 2013). The second has no idea at all, and may look on fenced off areas as a challenge to their 'rights'. This is not improved by people claiming to be "press" abusing the privileges given their established members. When rallies take place in isolated forests, the second are not a problem; even in an country area, the fact of tarmacked roads for access attract the second as a jolly day out.

 

John

Edited by john.r.davies
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I think the sport is more resilient than the doom mongers above, phase in proper marshall training and licensing and somehow get into the mind of the occasional spectator how dangerous an out of control rally car can be.

 

Marshalls enjoy the sport as much as competitors and organisers, they will want to embrace being recognised as qualified and up to speed on all safety issues, this is the way to go and clubs should be given the opportunity by the MSA to run training seminars and qualification examinations, under MSA stewardship of course.

 

Spectators

This is much more difficult, resources of a club running a forest rally face enormous problems with spectators because they find there way in whether allowed or not, banning spectators does not work in the forests, but how do you keep them safe. they never imagine that where they stand a car could ever reach them, WRONG!!

 

John Worthing

Hi John

Try flicking a so called professional photographer over the bonnet as I did and it will change your mind

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On average, around 130 skiers die in avalanches in Europe each year.

 

Kind of puts it into perspective I think.

 

Motor racing is dangerous. Take care where you place yourself.

 

Skiing is dangerous. People get a thrill out of living on the edge and sometimes you slip over it whether participant or observer. Sad, but people are doing what they love doing.

 

Dave.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dave,

I didn't respond earlier, but now I have news, I must point out first that you miss the point.

 

Motorsport IS dangerous, no question. But competitors specifically sign away their rights when they take part, recognising the risks and accepting them.

Spectators do not, so they are in a position to complain if they get killed. As it were.

And the problem at the Jim Clark was that spectators were killed.

That some of them were, or claimed to be, journalists, and were said to have had marshals warn them off the area, taped and marked as an unsafe area that they stood in, gone away and then come back, only to meet tragedy, is contentious.

 

But the MSA has just published a statement, in MSA News, "..on rally media access." I can't find it published online, so I must summarise it here.

The MSA intends to implement all the recommendations of the Scottish Government's Motor Sport Event Safety Review, in particular that on accreditation of media representatives.

It takes the opportunity to remind members of the press that they must:

Wear tabards, for safety and identification

Not claim special access rights not available to the public.

Remember that marshals and Stage Commanders can and will stop the event, unless they comply.

 

With no intention to prejudge the Inquest that will hear the fatal cases, this does express the views of many involved in rallying.

John

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Thank you John for spelling it out for me.

 

I wasn't trying to be flippant, but people do put themselves in danger with the same old thinking that it won't happen to them.

 

Approach all potential danger with a bit of common sense and most of the time you will survive.

 

I hope you were not offended.

 

All the best.

Dave.

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Hi Dave,

 

rallying has traditionally tended to attract a significant number of contenders for the Darwin Awards, amongst spectators and media personnel alike - underdeveloped sense of self-preservation, and disinclination to accept pertinent advice and instruction from organisers and officials.

 

Accidents will happen in motor sport, however much one endeavours to assess and to mitigate risk, it cannot be eliminated. Motor sport is dangerous.

 

The current proposals are simply another step towards further mitigating risk, and organisers can thus be reasonably secure in the knowledge that they have done all that is reasonably possible to safeguard spectators, media personnel, and indeed marshals and other officials of the event.

 

However, neither the MSA, the event organisers, nor even the law of the land can prevent fools from being so ingenious when it comes to evading reasonable restriction.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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From: MSA <media@msauk.org>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2015, 17:23
Subject: An open letter from the MSA Chief Executive

An open letter from the MSA Chief Executive regarding spectator safety on UK stage rallies
This weekend marks the second anniversary of the tragic death of a spectator on the Snowman Rally, and of course on the Jim Clark Rally in 2014 three more spectators lost their lives in equally tragic circumstances.
As a result the Scottish Government, following an emergency debate in the Scottish Parliament, commissioned a major review of safety on stage rallies. This Scottish Government Motorsport Event Safety Review published its final report in January, and the MSA has since gone on record confirming its commitment to the implementation of the report’s recommendations, not only in Scotland but throughout the UK.
Clearly, there is going to be a period of transition while everyone concerned works as hard as possible to introduce the recommended changes. In the interim, I need to remind all spectators of the fact that they are ultimately responsible for their own personal safety.
I say this because despite these well-publicised tragedies, and despite the sport being well aware of the changes being brought about by the Scottish Review, I am astonished and dismayed that an irresponsible minority – and I stress minority – of spectators continue to display a wanton disregard for their own personal well-being.
This was brought home to me when viewing YouTube clips of last weekend’s Wyedean Forest Rally, and also from the truly shocking photograph from the same rally in yesterday’s Motorsport News (18 February, page 34) of a ‘spectator’ lying flat on the ground on the edge of the forest track, apparently taking a photograph extremely close to a competing vehicle.
This behaviour not only shows a complete disregard for personal safety but in addition places other spectators, officials and competing crews in danger. It also undermines the considerable efforts of the dedicated rally organisers, officials and marshals, who do all they can to ensure that events run as safely as possible.
The MSA is currently working on a daily basis with all other stakeholders in rallying, particularly the Forestry Commission, and I can confirm from discussions within the last few days that unless these few idiotic spectators concerned change their attitude immediately and behave responsibly, there will be no future for stage rallying in the UK. I am not talking about next year, or the year after; I am talking about right now. Even in the meantime, this sort of behaviour will mean that stages are cancelled and rallies disrupted or even stopped.
Please, for the sake of rallying in the UK, can all spectators take full responsibility not only for ensuring their own personal safety but also the future of the sport we all love.
Yours in motor sport,
Rob Jones
CHIEF EXECUTIVE
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Not sure I'd agree with the minority description . . . . . or at least, I'd suggest that the idiot fringe is a fairly significant minority rather than a tiny one.

 

A new breed of Marshal might do the trick, equipped with a brace of Colts, a Winchester, and a licence to shoot to kill.

 

Alternatively just let the spectators do their thing, and don't interrupt the motor sport for the sake of a few corpses, scoop 'em up after the event.

 

Either way could improve the gene pool.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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  • 4 weeks later...

Exactly what I meant about the gene pool . . . . .

 

And why I gave up rallying in the '70s. Bouncing off a hedge, an earth bank, even a stone wall isn't too much aggro.

 

You don't bounce off spectators, and they make a hell of a mess in the process, and then there's all the post-lemming bureaucracy to have to deal with.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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  • 3 weeks later...

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