New remanufactured aluminium surrey backlight just like the original ones

[4Mal]

Whilst at the NEC I was on the Porsche stand watching the new Targa roof go through its fabulous act. Was talking to a P Manager over by a Targa and said that I had a car with the original concept, a Surrey on a TR4. Don't think he knew that one.

 

My Surrey was from ebay for £850 in 2008. It needed a fair bit of work on the roof, but the backlight wasn't bad.

 

Must admit that I do like the look of these potential remakes.

[RogerH]

Having now got a possible supply of Ali frames, plus the GRP frame from Honeybourne, we now need the stainless steel finishing capping for the rear of the roof remaking.

 

This is not as easy as it looks to make without decent equipement and a fair degree of knowledge.

 

Somebody must be able to do it.

 

Roger

[Ben Ferguson]

Roger,

 

the trim is something else I'm going to look into making. Again, not that easy, but must be possible.

[RogerH]

Excellent.

 

Roger

[simonjrwinter]

Fabulous that Ben is taking on this project, less of a downer on him chaps, he is to be heartily applauded for doing this. Obviously a top bloke!

Well done Ben.

Simon

Edited December 7, 2014 by simonjrwinter

[AlanT]

This project will need all the help we can give it.

The problem is that the tooling cost will be high and there will also need to be a reasonable sized production batch.

 

This contrasts strongly with the fibre-glass solution, which can use cheap wooden tools and you can lay them up more or less when you get an order.

 

It may be that machining from solid rather than casting is the way to do this.

I converted several complex castings to being machined instead and they were better and cheaper.

 

TRs got made because of the quantities exported o the USA.

I'd reckon this can work best if the same market can be exploited.

[Paul Harvey]

This project is what the TR Register should be all about (but isn't - yet!)

Properly made parts to keep the cars on the road.

 

I'm, talking to Ben about Italia parts because he's an enthusiast who wants to make his mark.

(and his uncle has an Italia!)

[TR NIALL]

This project is what the TR Register should be all about (but isn't - yet!)Properly made parts to keep the cars on the road.I'm, talking to Ben about Italia parts because he's an enthusiast who wants to make his mark.(and his uncle has an Italia!)

I know a Man who might be able to organise Rear Screens,seems they are needed also.

[stuart]

I know a Man who might be able to organise Rear Screens,seems they are needed also.

If they could be done as per original in toughened and not laminate then yes definitely as any frame discrepancies wont matter so much then.

Stuart.

[AlanT]

Actually wind-screen frames are likely to be more of a problem when it comes to keeping on the road.

Surrey is more of an upgrade.

 

Eventually all of these will rot out because the design collects water in the corners.

[harrytr5]

Yes rear screens and new backlites (frame) when can I buy them?

Regards Harry

[stargazergs]

This is all sounding very encouraging and hat's off to Ben, I'm looking forward to to seeing the finished product.

 

 

Gavin

[Chris Hubball]

Hi All

 

I agree with Paul and Alans comments, is this the type of project the New Spares Development Fund should be involved in and supporting ?

 

Cheers Chris.

[TR 2100]

Pete Buckles borrowed a TR4 surrey rear trim from

the Alanidds Cave spares to check viability.

 

Feedback (2-3 years ago) was that it was not viable.

As has been recorded, most TR owners want a cheap

option, and the Mini plastic trim (for the external body

seams, I think) provides a cheap solution acceptable

to most.

 

As an aside, I wanted to have my surrey rear frame

polished rather than painted. I saw a photo of a TR4

in the US that had this and it looked really neat. This

proved to be not practical as there are a couple of

welded in the original item.

The methods of manufacture being discussed above

would certainly allow that option.

 

AlanR

[Paul Harvey]

Any commercial supplier has to fund all the tooling and then sell at a high margin to recover costs and make profit.

He takes a commercial risk and he wants a commercial return (cost + risk + profit)

A parts club can use common interest, pooled knowledge, enthusiasm and a few deposits to get the whole job done asap

 

If 60 Italia owners worldwide can get stuff at 2/3 price why can't 100,000 TR owners?

[Paul Harvey]

I spoke to the Pilkington boys and they can't do short run toughened glass in their empire.

Apparently toughened and laminated are completely different processes requiring different factories.

I will speak again with their sales director who apparently knows all the places worldwide where we might get this done.

[Tom Fremont]

Taylor Made did some tempered ones a while back. I bought one for a spare from TRF back in the 1900s; they had (10) on the shelf at the time ( none now ). It has done service on my driver since 2003.

 

www.taylormadeglass.com

 

I can't imagine they needed a huge commitment at the time, but I'd suggest coming up with the largest reasonable forecast for quantity when enquiring.

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

 

[Paul Harvey]

TRF are a great supplier, and helpful so well worth talking to.

 

Laminated glass is inherently weak if not fully enclosed so it is not used for car windows that open - hence flat or single curvature toughened/tempered glass is readily available for side windows.

The costly issue is the complex double curvature and there are factories already set up for laminated, double curvature front windscreens where laminated glass is the only legal option in many places. Historical issues with optical clarity of laminated glass have been solved and the process readily accommodates heated elements and tints at low cost.

 

No doubt a supplier could be found, but it might be better to use modern manufacturing techniques to eliminate discrepancies in the surround so that existing rear laminated screen glasses fit well - one less new product to source.

 

I'm sure Ben Ferguson is aware of the issues.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Paul Harvey

[Tom Fremont]

I would say the screens on TR4-5 front or back are single curved.

 

I might add that the Taylor Made glass did have to flex a bit to go in.

[Paul Harvey]

Interestingly, TRF say they are waiting for rear screen glasses from a UK supplier so maybe they are sourcing toughened and we can jump on their order

[harrytr5]

Paul,

I await with bated breath.I am desperate for a toughened rear screen for my surrey backlite.

How do we act on this.

Regards Harry

[Paul Harvey]

TRF supply the same laminated screens as Moss.

I will speak to Charles Runyan about the previous supply but I am not hopeful based on Pilkington's assessment (the world market is consolidating around 2 or 3 major players)

 

The only (back)light at the end of the tunnel is that Pilkington/NSG are considering a facility exactly for this purpose commencing 2017.

[Tom Fremont]

Maybe CAR can tell us how many Taylor Made did the previous round...

[stuart]

Interestingly, TRF say they are waiting for rear screen glasses from a UK supplier so maybe they are sourcing toughened and we can jump on their order

I suspect they may be the same laminated ones as Moss have, they are made in Turkey, I have found them to be fragile if there is any discrepancy in the frame.The heated ones have the element actually stuck on the very inside of the glass and not sandwiched like a modern car one.

Stuart.

[RogerH]

Hi Stuart,

I'm getting twitchy. I need to take my surrey frame glass out to re-do the paint work.

 

Was the original glass toughened or laminated?

Would it be indicated on the glass somewhere.?

 

Roger