Geko Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Ola, I'm about to source a diecast for my son's 5th birthday. Disaster ahead, horror stories, etc... Possibly. Obviously he will abuse it but knows how to behave with my old girl and stopped tearing knobs and switches apart and playing with the cordless drill and hammer anywhere close to her. My reference is TONKA. He's got a collection of old mighty trucks, cranes, fire engine, etc...sourced from the flea market over the years and which he can and does abuse. So I'm looking for something along these lines. The model needs to be sizable enough to accommodate a reasonable amount of technical features ( i.e. spinning wheels, opening bonnet, trunk and doors; with an engine and removable top, etc...) and most importantly, fixable after rallying in the staircase. I've seen a couple of them on picture but never actually held a real one in hand and was wondering which one to go for. The price doesn't really matter, it will be anything between 10 and 100£ anyway. Some pointers and advice please. Thanks, as always Edited November 23, 2014 by Geko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Stef I have any number of 1/43 model cars from a range of makers. They are all fragile and most don't have opening parts Suggest you need minimum 1/18 scale and that will reduce your choices Sorry cant recommend a brand as I don't have any that size. Good luck and happy birthday o him Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I have the ones you attached as example. These are not kids toys, very fragile and will loose his interest very fast because it brakes in pieces.. I have a collection of dinky toys which are quite robust. Not new of course so dents and scratchen only contributes to the fun. Perhaps source a tr4 on ebay? Wont meet the interactive demands.. Mostly one piece... Edited November 23, 2014 by EdwinTiben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 The Revell 08873 "Triumph TR4 Rallye", 1:18 scale, shown in the second shot, is a pretty good model of one of the Works' TR4s on the Shell 4000 in Canada in April 1964. Putting on my anorak (!), I note the following: although carrying registration 5VC, it should be CAG410, as the 3 cars left behind their UK registrations when they were shipped across the Atlantic, and were registered in Oregon. the rear springs are incorrect (one can see the dished springs and horrible blocks as used on later TR4s), no door mirrors were fitted in 1964, not sure whether the cars had TRIUMPH TEAM on the front wings (cannot see in any of the shots which I have, but might be hidden by dirt!), the name of the appropriate crew member should be on the door - ROY FIDLER on the right, JEAN JACQUES THUNER (hyphen omitted) on the left, the dashboard is white - the rally cars had black vinyl over the paint to cut down reflections, the gear lever is standard, not the cranked version, which brings it nearer the steering wheel and clear of the handbrake, which is mounted on the propshaft cover (that is correct in the model), the fuseboxes are missing from the bulkhead (the rally cars had 4 boxes, each with 4 fuses, and there were 4 relays). Having said all that, it is a nice model at 8 inches (20cm) in length, but is 5th birthday a little too early, Geko? Perhaps you would need to buy two in case of damage? Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) although carrying registration 5VC, it should be CAG410, as the 3 cars left behind their UK registrations when they were shipped across the Atlantic, and were registered in Oregon. the rear springs are incorrect (one can see the dished springs and horrible blocks as used on later TR4s), no door mirrors were fitted in 1964, not sure whether the cars had TRIUMPH TEAM on the front wings (cannot see in any of the shots which I have, but might be hidden by dirt!), the name of the appropriate crew member should be on the door - ROY FIDLER on the right, JEAN JACQUES THUNER (hyphen omitted) on the left, Ian Cornish It's here on ebay with comment: John Gretener/ Jean Jacques Thuner*34th Spa/Sofia/Liege on August 25/29,1964* There are several vintage pics but the plate number was blurred so not sure if the comments match the actual model whose "creative" license plate -besides 5VC- is from Germany if not mistaking Edited November 23, 2014 by Geko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Correct, Geko, the 1964 Liège plate has no relevance here! In 1964, Thuner and Gretener were driving one of three Triumph 2000s (not TR4s) in the Liège Rally - all 3 cars failed to finish as the rough terrain destroyed the suspension! Yes, the 'creative' licence plate on the Revell model (wow, now very expensive on eBay!) reflects the fact that Revell probably used as a pattern a certain German 'tribute' rally car, which the owner used to claim was 5VC. I hope that, having exposed his car to inspection by Revington, Thuner, Kastner and Sheach (and probably others), this claim has been dropped. A number of other very nice 'tribute' cars exist in England, such as Jonathan Hancox's 7VC and Mike North's LNK, but these fellows don't claim their cars to be ex-Works cars. It shows that Graham Robson and his small team under Ray henderson managed to produce a very competitive package in a mere 8 months from a standing start in early 1962. Having been brought back from the USA in the 1990s, 6VC and 3VC are still competitive in Historic rallying where little deviation from the 1963 specification is permitted - both cars have roll cages, full harnesses, better seats and dual-circuit brakes, but that's about it. The TRs which have done so well on LeJog and Rally of the Tests have taken the formula much further, with engines incorporating solid billet cranks and Carillo rods, so can run to more than 7000 rpm without disintegrating. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Just a quick update for your anorak, Ian. Cars did have "TRIUMPH TEAM" on the front wing - see here. http://shell-4000-rally.org/4000_web/1964/pdf/1964_TSOA.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Stef, I have a similar boxed model of a 1:18 TR4 (but this time a softtop in bright yellow!!) as in you RH picture - "Jadi Modelcraft". Printed on the box is " Not suitable for children under 14 years - although I note that elsewhere it says "Not for children under 8 years (For USA)). mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 No worries, I'll keep the box under safe custody Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I wouldn't have thought that Carsten Conrads has quite withdrawn his long held opinions of his TR4 and other rallying TR4s . . . . for those who read German - http://www.tr4-rally.com/vcheute.html For those who do not - http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.tr4-rally.com/vcheute.html&prev=search Barristers at dawn ? Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't have thought that Carsten Conrads has quite withdrawn his long held opinions of his TR4 and other rallying TR4s . . . . for those who read German - http://www.tr4-rally.com/vcheute.html For those who do not - http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.tr4-rally.com/vcheute.html&prev=search Barristers at dawn ? Cheers Alec OMG,Good to Read others Views,right or wrong. Edited November 23, 2014 by TR NIALL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Toronto Tim: thanks for that pointer to the TSOA document. A few pictures there which I had not seen before and, as you say, confirms that TEAM TRIUMPH was indeed on the front wings. I'm not going to bother answering the critique of all 4 cars by Conrads - it would take too long and readers would get bored! I have never made any secret of which parts of 4VC are reproductions or replacements, and I cover a great deal of this in my talk on the "Works' TR4 Rally Cars". Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hi I think you'll find if you look at the various cars and contemporary evidence / witness accounts that most of this lot is simply not factual. Horses leave lots of it on the road too. for those who read German - http://www.tr4-rally.com/vcheute.html For those who do not - http://translate.goo...tml&prev=search It's hugely mischevious ! Some might say more ... Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Mischievous ? That's a polite way of putting it . . . . . ! The way I see it, 4 VC is one kettle of fish . . . . 3, 5 and 6 quite another. Ian, to his very considerable credit, has always been at pains to scrupulously acknowledge the component evolution of 4VC down the years . . . . Queen Anne's Axe it may be to a degree, but it does have a more or less continuous history and record of its evolution and reconstruction. In contrast, I really don't see how 3, 5 and 6 could ever be regarded as much more than recreations . . . . including a certain amount of battered remnants fished out of a murky pool. Hardly unusual, most old competition cars have evolved until they got dismantled or were abandoned to rust away. There are exceptions of course, but those exceptions are not the rule. It's a simple enough equation, whatever the marque. The difference between an 'ex-works' competition car and the next car down the production line restored to a similar specification is perhaps the difference between £35K and £135K in market value. £100K can buy a good deal of evidence, opinion, silence, whatever . . . . and still leave a healthy profit . . . . . and all too often does. Move up to the historic exotica, and add a nought after the above . . . . Whether or not that's a problem is a matter for discussion - if we get too concerned about originality, a chimera at best, there wouldn't be many historic cars around. Just my cynical opinions of course, nobody says you have to agree with them ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EdwinTiben Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 ahmm.. how did we get from "hey, i want a toycar for my kid" to evaluation of the true or untrue identities of works rally cars...? soo.... this as a small bumb in the original intention of the question... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted November 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 ahmm.. how did we get from "hey, i want a toycar for my kid" to evaluation of the true or untrue identities of works rally cars...? soo.... this as a small bumb in the original intention of the question... never mind I'll just get all of them and leave it up the 4 stair flights to decide which is more genuine and report back. Just bought 5VC Revell tonite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jean Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Well done Stef...I also bought it years ago, it's the best you can find in the TR4 range. Your boy will like it. Anyhow when I was at his age the first thing I did with a new toy was taken it to pieces to have a look inside, not very appreciated by my parents... but a nice way to learn.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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