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Money is always an issue, to a greater or lesser degree. The Monte was ever an expensive indulgence. If EH had had the funds, no doubt his weapon of choice might have been something with more chance than the by then obsolete TRs, and the same goes for the Fords that followed. His mounts seem to have been mostly a tad behind the times, with little chance of achieving.

 

White roundels are meaningless - often enough simply an affectation, an aspiration, or a harking back to glory days of long ago..

 

Most TRs carry a fire extinguisher. This one looks from the green colour like an old Halon 1211 unit, which should by law have been decommissioned more than a decade ago, and which hasn't been permitted in motor sport of any discipline for more than 20 years . . . . Montreal Protocol and all that.

 

If VJA 20 had been a regular attender or competitor in TR circles over the past 25 years, then the likelihood is that someone on this Forum would have recognised the car and commented upon it - that hasn't happened, which suggests that the car and/or its owner/s have maintained a relatively low profile.

 

If anyone in the club knows of the car, it's most likely the TR4 Registrar - who can be contacted via the TR Register website. Bear in mind that he is a volunteer, a busy chap with other commitments, and his function is to assist TR Register members in a modest fashion - and the usual Data Protection constraints apply.

 

Whatever VJA 20 might or might not have once done, back in the day post-Monte or post-1990 restoration, it's unlikely to have any significant bearing on the car's current value. So it once ran the Monte, or some of it, as a private entry - and turned turtle big-time . . . . interesting, out of the ordinary run, but it doesn't put smart money on the price tag. It's a decent looking TR4, inspect closely and value accordingly.

 

Without a continuous documented history the registration number in itself may not mean a lot, ditto the commission number. Start with a Heritage certificate and work forward from there . . . . as the vendors have no doubt already done, and being professionals are perhaps more experienced at researching history than the likes of me and thee. They may well have a bulging history file available for inspection by potential purchasers ?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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The 1993 IWE was when 4VC went back on the road after its re-build, and I seem to recall that video footage was taken, some of which went into the VCR which our Hon. Pres. produced subsequently. So it might be worth digging out the tape and finding a player, and arranging a viewing.

Courtesy of Alistair Vincent of the NLG, I have both the original tape version and a DVD copy.

 

Worth having a look at the TR Action which followed the IWE?

 

I didn't possess a camera in 1993, so have no photos of my own.

 

Ian Cornish

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That was a good IWE, I think the one that Philip Peereboom's band WHY played at . . . . . great evening, and an awful lot of White Lightning cider consumed with the late Dave Lightning Brown.

 

I didn't take any photos either, sadly.

 

Perhaps worth starting another thread At The Bar re IWE 1993 ?

 

Again, the TR4 registrar might have some record ?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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Verified ? 50+ years on ? You cannot be serious !

 

The Heritage trace ought to have the original engine number as well as the commission number, which is first base . . . .

 

If that differs from the present engine number, then you know it's been swapped at some stage in its life.

 

But all that detail I'd expect to find in the history file of a pukka car being handled by a pukka dealer - if the information wasn't in the file, I'd expect the dealer to have sourced the relevant from Heritage, that's half the point of an owner entrusting a car to a specialist classic/historic retailer to sell. And similarly why a buyer chooses to pay a premium price to a specialist dealer.

 

If a pukka specialist dealer isn't offering the information to support the claimed provenance, my past experience is that the proof is NLA . . . . .

 

The TR4 Registrar may be able to offer some suggestion as to when the engine number currently fitted, if it differs from the Heritage record, might have been built. But we are talking suggestions here, not certainties.

 

In any case, at the time the engine would presumably have been a bog standard TR4 engine just like any other bog standard TR4 engine - there was no Competition Dept and no special tuning parts homologated, so any one TR4 engine was like every other.

 

I would have thought it far, far more likely that the car was rebuilt or re-engined or whatever by the local dealership rather than by the factory. That's life.

 

And it doesn't make a jot of difference half a century on who rebuilt the wretched car, it was a stuffed TR4, Monte entrant failed in a big way, embarrassing waste of time and effort and money.

 

What in heaven's name are you trying to demonstrate by all this ? The car was a one-off privateer entry by a galloping petrolhead who by his finishing record over many years seems to have had more enthusiasm than ability, bless him and rest his soul. This was not and could not have been in any sense a 'works' car, can only have been by definition a more-or-less bog standard off-the-line car, and at best a dealer supported private venture.

 

And all that is before considering just how much, or how little, or if any, of the original car remains today . . . .

 

We're in danger of losing the will to live here, the topic has been thrashed, and it's not a car of any overriding interest, except perhaps to the original owner's family.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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Thank you Alec, you have just said more than I would have dared to write without personally being accused of pique, jealousy, or kite-flying ....

 

You are, of course, quite right. Let's bury the entire topic, for it covers a car of merely ephemeral interest and significance.

 

Hon. Pres. (and Comps. Secretary of the period ....)

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  • 2 months later...

I see that this topic has just been resurrected (exhumed ?) in an AUTOSPORT forum, with the same OP seeking more of the same information.Hon. Pres.

Why on earth can he not let it rest!

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I see that this topic has just been resurrected (exhumed ?) in an AUTOSPORT forum, with the same OP seeking more of the same information.

 

Hon. Pres.

 

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/197470-edwin-hodson-monte-carlo-rally-1962/

 

Hope springs eternal. 'Course, a lot of you guys apparently wasted a good bit of time doing some serious research for someone who doesn't want to hear your conclusions.

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We might be in danger of misinterpreting TIL 58's endeavours . . . . . .

 

In an earlier post I suggested "The only way of finding out about the history of minor events is diligent research through the archives of major resources such as those at Beaulieu, Gaydon or Sparkford, and perhaps joining forums that concern themselves with the history of rallying or racing at club level."

 

The Autosport Forum fits that suggestion, a source of information concerning motor sport at club level . . . .

 

TIL 58 asks of the Auosport enthusiasts " Does any one have any information about car, its driver or co driver or other rallies/races at Oulton Park that E Hodson did around the early 60's "

 

That seems to me like a reasonable enough enquiry in an appropriate Forum, if one is trying to fit EH into a wider context. As previously suggested.

 

Edwin Hodson was an interesting chap after all, an ordinary lad who made good, a competitor in some serious motor sporting events, a larger than life character and in his day something of a local hero - there might have been a flavour of La Mancha about this Manchester Man, but as I recall he was generally well regarded.

 

If TIL 58 is still trying to talk himself into buying a pretty looking TR with a whiff of history about it, and for not exorbitant money if it is what it claims to be, an early privateer TR4 with a modest albeit unsuccessful career in its youth, then where's the harm in that ?

 

We have conclusively established that the family stories of works connections were somewhat wide of the mark, but we haven't between us come up with a great deal about the other contemporary involvements of either Edwin Hodson himself or of his TR4. So cast the net wider . . . .

 

I must say though, there's a limit to the amount that I, and I suspect many other folks, would wish to say in response to enquiries from someone who seemingly doesn't wish to identify themselves by so much as a forename, let alone surname. As a general rule, at least in my experience, lurking behind the anonymity of a nom de plume isn't necessarily the best way to elicit assistance and information.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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You're right, Alec. TIL58 does give little insight into his relationship to the car or underlying reasons for his request, and does little to acknowledge information received. Not the best way to get people's best efforts on his behalf. The individual's determined though, we'll give him that, and perhaps his diligence will uncover the info he's after.

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Couple of interesting photos from another of TIL 58's discussions

 

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/histoire-du-sport-auto/sujet378115-980.htm

 

http://www.forum-auto.com/sport-auto/photo-sport-auto/sujet243862-14595.htm#t14863365

 

The first thread is a long running saga of photos of Triumphs in rallying . . . . worth a look

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

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I see that VJA 20 has been sold according to the Pendine Classics website . . . . . .

 

Given that TIL 58 notes in the Autosport discussion " I am not interested in how good or bad the driver was or about the quality of his car. I am looking photos on the rally (maybe in Glasgow before the start or in Dover before the crossing at the time control) and information about his navigators . . . . . I am trying to build up a history file on the car. "

 

Sounds like he might perhaps be the buyer of the TR4 under discussion ? Fingers crossed we may yet hear more, I'd certainly be interested in any interesting bits of history unearthed.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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my guess that TIL58 was the seller and was trying to fill in some gaps between probable value and asking price

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  • 11 months later...

That might be an interesting read, I'll have a look in the local newsagents !

 

After all the lengthy discussion about VJA 20 and Edwin Hodson last year, it would have been appreciated if the original poster had updated us with any further information he had gleaned about the car and the driver . . . . . . clearly the car had some degree of general interest, and it would certainly be interesting to learn more about EH's personal rallying exploits.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

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  • 3 weeks later...

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