MRG1965 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hi all, looking for a bit of confirmation before I purchase. Recently been out in the dark with my 4 for the first time. Discovered the standard sealed beam units are very poor by modern standards (wife not happy about surprise corners). After fettling with earths, connectors and swaping some headlamp units previous owner gave me (including some lhd units) it was clear they are as good as they could be, and an upgrade of some kind is required. I'm not interested in hid, xeon and am quite happy with H4 halogen bulbs, possibly one of the exotic ones that claim to give more light for same amps and rated at 55/60w, so now to the questions. 1) will the current cabling cope? I'm planning to use relays( one for main and one for dip) by taking the feeds of the dip switch and using the existing loom feeds to the headlamps. 2) searching around I can see that there are many sellers, will any 7" rhd units fit as some site list specific models (mini, mgb, etc) and others are genric, am I right in my assumptionthat they are all similar? Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 My experience (on my TR3B) is that for a modest electrical load on the car, the standard dynamo and my new wiring harness can easily keep up with 55/60W H4 bulbs. I don't use headlamp relays, although I'm sure it's good practice. There are folks on here with *very* well-developed cutom electrical systems and will offer more enthusiastic recommendations for relays, I'm sure. Not all H4 lens/reflector systems are created equal. The beam pattern can vary in terms of cutoff sharpness, hot and cold spots, etc. Hella is one of the best, IMO, but their 7" inserts don't look "vintage". Cibié are good, too. I have Lucas H4 7" inserts (LHD) in my car now, and they're quite OK. I'd go with a name brand over some generic offering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Fit Osram Nightbreaker H4 bulbs in their latest incarnation. You won't regret it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I use nightbreaker H4 bulbs in repro tripod lamps bought them off ebay as "Alpine lamps" they have "700" written in the centre. Dipped beam is very good, full beam is a little strange in that some light seems to be directed at the treetops, but there is certainly enough going straight ahead to make night driving enjoyable, & safe. BTW I am using standard loom & no relays) (TR3) Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steved69tr6 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I had the same issue as you did on my TR6, when from sealed beam to halogen. It was much better, I didn't bother with relays but I've got a new wiring loom, all of my electrics are new, however I would recommend fitting a relays, and yeah it should work no problems. I got my halogen conversion lamps from SC Parts, they do Lucas 7' rhd units so look more correct with the car, and yes there are universal to mini mgb etc etc Recently I upgraded again to HID (High Intensidy Discharge) even better, its like driving in daylight at light!! However if you plan on getting HID do some research on them if there too bright they can be illegal, I got mine as a kit from Moss Europe, uses the original wiring loom and comes with all the parts needed to convert to HID, and the biggest plus side is, it hardly uses any amps to work, in comparriosn to seals beam and halign that need alot to work, so no strains on the old English electrics Cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 More light less power needed http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/trucklite-phase-7-led-headlamps.html Just add wallet Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steved69tr6 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Just PM you, your in the same town as me, your welcome to come and view mine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanG Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I thought HID equipped cars had to have self levelling headlights and washers fitted to be legal. Alan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steved69tr6 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Technically yes, they need the washers. But to be honest, mine went straight though its MOT with them and also how often to we drive at night. Cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steved69tr6 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Hear a pic of mine on the right fitted with HID, and a friends TR6 on the left fitted with Halogen, both cars were on main beam Cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I'm one of those who would recommend relays if you convert to H4s - simply for safety and to likely improve current to the lights due to shorter runs and newer/cleaner connections. There's no doubt that you can build your own, but I bought mine as a kit - FWIW, I have a 4-relay/4-fuse set-up. I'm interested in feedback on the HID conversions - there appears to be SOME tech guidance against it (see link). http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html I don't have any expertise here, hence being keen on feedback. Edited October 28, 2014 by TorontoTim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steved69tr6 Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 This is why I was very careful when choosing a kit to fit (the Moss Europe Kit), and also being a mechanic for a living I have access to MOT equipment, like a beam setter. I wouldn't even attempt the conversion unless you know someone like myself who can set them up safely Cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MRG1965 Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Thanks for the advice and guidance, off to Bruges for a few days, so will catch up on the thread at the weekend. Cheers Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 More light less power needed http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/trucklite-phase-7-led-headlamps.html Just add wallet Peter W They will be the ones that are always getting stolen off Landrovers then. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cbxman Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 When I bought my TR it was already fitted with H4 lamps, but I was surprised at how yellow the light was. This is usually down to the lamps not receiving the 12V they need to reach their designed brightness. The original wiring in the car is not really very good to start with, and was probably just about able to cope with the the older 35/45 watt lamps. When you consider the the route which the current takes to get to your headlamps, you can see why relays are a good idea. 2x 60 watts is approx 120W divided by 12V nominal, that is 10 amps. It travels from the rear of your ammeter to the stalk switch on the steering column where is passes through through some rather feeble contacts, then down the harness to the dip switch next to the clutch pedal where it passes through more feeble contacts, then a long trip through the harness down to the headlights. In between those two points are numerous connector blocks as well. It is entirely possible to lose 2V or more just in the wiring and switches leaving only 10V nominal for the filaments in your lamps. A pair of relays placed near the headlamps supplied with a nice fat lead from the fuse board and wired to the existing lighting harness will permit the full 12V to reach your filaments. An additional benefit is that your poor old ancient headlight and dip switches are now only handling the current to operate the coils in the relays, just a few milliamps. They are less likely to erode or burn out if they get a little dirty. It is a simple job and not expensive. I have arranged mine in such a way that I can remove the whole modification without leaving a trace, thus returning to standard if I wish (unlikely) Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Absolutely agree with above. It's a £20 winter afternoon job, and you do not need to be a genious either. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Link to the DoT observations on HID headlamp fitment http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20120606172804/http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/aftermarket-hid-headlamps.pdf It's clear enough. It's also worth bearing in mind that the police could, if they so wished, potentially throw a whole raft of charges at the owner/driver of an inappropriately equipped vehicle - which they have in this locality, following serious accident . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MRG1965 Posted November 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Hi all, have decided to go with the H4 units along with the nightbreaker bulbs as suggested above. Will also us two relays, if for not other reason than to reduce the load on the dip switch and headlamp switch to give longer life with the increase in the bulb sizes. Need to put a couple of other relays in anyway to control a new cooling fan upgrade (currently in a box behind the sofa) and an electric fuel pump (yet to be purchased), but this second relays is to allow the pump to be controlled by the remote shut down unit (also in a box behind the sofa) so a far bit of separate new wiring loom is going to be located somewhere up in the drivers foot well out of sight, to maintain the illusion of originality and allow it to be removed easily and put back if required. Thanks to Steve for the look at the HID installation on his 6, very bright lights and a tidy installation, will have to see if the Halogens work well (should do) before I commit £150. Thanks All Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'm interested in these Osram H4 bulbs , but I have original Tripods fitted with BPF bulb holders do you need an adaptor for these H4 bulbs? I have a TR3A , 1959 with a new wiring loop and relays on the Marchal spots. Regards Bill G@ NB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I doubt it Bill. The beam pattern would probably be wrong and therefore an MoT failure, although you probably don't need an MoT. The way to go might be to get hold of a pair of repro tripods that will accept H4 bulbs and fit Nightbreakers in them but then you lose the originality. Such as the ones on this page http://www.deegeeinternational.co.uk/product-list.php?pg1-cid53.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billg Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Given the potential benefit it might be worth experimenting with making an adaptor that tries to put the main and dip filaments in approximately the same positionIn the parabolic reflector. I have an old P700 tripod unit and will buy a h4 bulb to see if this practical . My Lycas tripods were NOS and the reflectors were in good nick plus the dip is very effective. I have fitted a pair of Marchal spots which can come on with the main beams , I have Marchal factory fittingsthat can convert these period spots to QI and that is possibly a better way to go " on reflection!" Bill G@ NB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Why not but a pair of adaptors from ebay, like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H4-Headlight-BULB-ADAPTERS-410-HB12-P45-CLASSIC-VINTAGE-CARS-RENAULT-5-6-/271516133155?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f379f6723 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'm not certain but I don't think that would work. BPF is P36 or P22 and by my reading the eBay item adapts an H4 to a P45. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malcolm Tatton Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Yep that's right. BPF isn't P45. I'd always thought that that P700s were P45 (even though the query says BPF) So maybe buy BPF halogens http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproducts.asp?sg=1&pgCode=012&sgName=Electrical&pgName=Bulbs+%26+Warning+Lamps&agCode=0080&agName=Bulbs+BPF http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffybulbs.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Just sent off for a couple of QH headlamp bulbs for my 1935 Hillman (6V) & a couple of halogen stop / tail bulbs for the TR Expensive reading this thread !! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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