boggie Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Sunny afternoon and I am visiting Dad so we decided to taks the TR for a spin but Moss quality strikes again.....! Three miles down the road and we run out of puff, rolling to a stop on a busy A road. After a brief investigation it transpires the brand new Moss fuel pump is now both pushing and sucking the fuel back. I can see the fuel entering the filter when I lift the lever on the pump but when I release it the Moss pump sucks it back! Also I can pull fuel through the pipe with my mouth, yummy, so I know there is no blockage. So here we are, stuck at the side of a busy A road for an hour or two, waiting to be rescued. What's worse is it now looks like rain! Thank Moss! Anyone able to recommend a good quality supplier of good quality pumps please? Anything that lasts more than 69 miles would be an improvement on the Moss ..... Thanks, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Ian ~ Sorry to hear of your problem. I've recently fitted an SU electric petrol pump to my 3A. I've always been an advocate of electric petrol pumps. I used one for a Morris 1000. Give it some thought. If you'd like photo's of the installation then please PM me your eMail address. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Ian, not good at all. The repair could be simple but messy. Inside the top of the pump are two Non-return valves. One has probably dropped out of the body. At least the operating lever pivot pin didn't migrate out (for another day perhaps). I did a mod on mine by inserting a very small screw and washer between the two valves so they can't fall out. You could fill in a Part Quality Initiative form and the team would leap into action. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) If you still have the original pump then we know a man who will repair it properly. Let me know and I will give you his details. Stuart. Edited October 18, 2014 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Two issues to check before throwing over the nearest wall. Take the pump off and check the wear point that it is definately on the underside. It is possible to install the pump with the pump cam beneath the camshaft and although it works after a fashion it doesn't complete the full stroke. You may also possibly have a partially blocked mushroom valve that allows pump and suck, it may be a small piece of paint flake. The repro pumps have a tendendcy to split apart at the spot welds that hold the pump cam lever halves together. The original and best ones have a bronze cam arm which even if worn are better than the repros. Can be picked up occasionally on the bay and serviced to new spec by Stuarts "man" Just a few things to check although feel sure that these are unlikely. Edited October 18, 2014 by Rodbr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Cheers guys, Definitely the non-return valve, even hand pumping does not work. I put the outlet into a jar, pumped the lever and fuel entered the jar but when i release the lever it sucks it back. I could try to fix it but I don't trust the quality. Ironically, I replaced the original AC fuel pump as it is quite old and i don't know if it is ok with modern fuels so the Moss repro was fitted to ensure reliability....! But that was before I realised how poor the repro pumps are. I just refitted the old AC pump and it works fine. Stuart, are there original AC recon kits available? New gauze, diaphragm and valve with gaskets etc that are NOT crappy copies? Thanks, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Ian, don't even think about diy pump rebuild. Send it to Dave Davies, it'll cost you fifty quid give or take, and within days you'll have it back in better than new condition and fitted with all proper nos parts. As good as TR value gets. And no, I don't know him personally, just as a satisfied long-distance customer ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Me too. Dave does a proper job. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Reading this very helpful thread, I rang Dave Davies and my original TR2 pump is on its way to Manchester for rebuild, while this weekend we have to do 300 miles on the Autumn Leaves tour of the Cambrian Mountains on the pump I fitted on rebuild, why did I fit it? Because it was a brand new pump (bought@Stoneleigh) and very reasonably priced and has given no trouble yet but its nice to have the original ready to go if needed, if as I suspect from the above may be a naff AC copy or it may well be a good un!! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Funnily enough I spoke to Dave this afternoon and he mentioned you. Mine is off in the next couple of days..... Edited October 21, 2014 by boggie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I rebuild my own over here, but always with an original core and often reusing the original non-return valves. I keep a spare diaphragm (at least) with the car, because that's probably the most common failure point and one can be changed roadside without removing the pump body from the block. Dave Davies sounds like a fine resource for those for those within reasonable shipping distance, but it's really not that hard to get an original AC pump back on the road. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Hi Don, it's not that hard given the right rebuild parts - and therein lies the problem, repro lack of quality again. As long as Dave holds a stock of original spares and turns round a perfect job that also looks perfect, for £50 it isn't worth the frustration of fiddling with a second rate rebuild kit. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Absolutely true, Alec. For fifty pounds including parts it's a decent deal. Are the diaphragm's in Dave's original spares ethanol compatible? I'm guessing yes, eh? The NOS parts I've seen recently in a friend's stash are really old NOS -- AC stuff -- and the rubber-coated fabric isn't compatible with modern fuels. Not a good choice unless one is confidently using pure gas. The TRF kit, as we've discussed in other threads, uses a diaphragm made from modern materials (from EFFBE in Germany). It's a good quality kit, and that indeed makes a difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Hi Don, given that 1950s and early 60s UK motorists could use National Benzole or Cleveland Discol, containing a modest whack of benzole and ethanol respectively, there is no good reason why fuel system components of that vintage should have a problem . . . . . 1970s manufacture could be a different matter, of course. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Hi Don, I asked Dave that very question and tells me he only fits genuine AC parts. He does not know for sure how compatible the AC diaphragm is with modern fuels but he is yet to see one fail.... Cheers, Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi Don, I asked Dave that very question and tells me he only fits genuine AC parts. He does not know for sure how compatible the AC diaphragm is with modern fuels but he is yet to see one fail.... Cheers, Ian He has been doing my pumps for a long time and I have never had any trouble with any of them. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi Guys I recently had Dave rebuild my pump, but be aware he refuses to work on Chinese cr*p, Mine was such a pump but he built me up a genuine one from his spares and inserted the EFFBE diaphragm from TRF that I supplied to him. I gave him the name of the people who supply those diaphragms from Germany, but even with an order of 1000 units they would not supply them to him, so I don´t know where TRF get theirs from THe problem with the Chinese one is the hinge point for the cam follower is not through the body of the pump so it can pull out and fall into the sump. Mine was totally worn away at the base of the diaphragm spindle and the piece that connects to the cam Follower. Dave is a real gentleman and charged me LESS than a replacement from MOss or the likes. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Why on earth would anyone expect Dave to work on repro pumps ? He repairs and reconditions pukka AC pumps - old ones in reed of refurbishing are not exactly in short supply. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 My pump arrived with Dave this morning, he rang me to let me know it was rebuilt this morning and on its way back, proper old fashioned personal service. Even explained about having the camshaft lobe away from the lever on fitting (someone amongst our numbers had fitted one the wrong side of the cam!) and to make sure to use the 2 gaskets provided. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Can somebody let on where we can contact this magician, cos I got an original pump in bits to rebuild! James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) 01942 891447, or from you, +44 1942 891447 Edited October 22, 2014 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Larnder Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Why on earth would anyone expect Dave to work on repro pumps ? He repairs and reconditions pukka AC pumps - old ones in reed of refurbishing are not exactly in short supply. Cheers Alec Alec If you ain´t seen an original one, how would you know the one you have is a repro? They do have AC on the top, which of course is wrong. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 My rebuilt pump arrived back today, so it can sit in the boot as a spare on Autumn Leaves this weekend!! Thanks Dave John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 01942 891447, or from you, +44 1942 891447 Thanks for this James Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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