RogerH Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Folks, a friend of mine has a newly built 4A engine. There is a big oil leak running down between the front of the gearbox and the lower baffle plate rear of the sump - it is just off centre (towards the near side). It looks like the core plug from the back of the camshaft is not sealed fully. What are the options? Ideally - GB out, flywheel off replace core plug. Are there any other good fixes without the gearbox/Flywheel removal. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Can't think of anything else in that area ? (assuming it's not a rear of rocker cover oil leak travelling down) if his newly rebuilt engine is from a specialist check out their opinion and mumble about not very good etc they may remove the gearbox foc and reseal if it's the core plug. If it's his rebuild what has he done to cause the leak ? maybe doesn't matter, remedies the same, gear box out. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hmmm, sadly same wave length. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Roger ~ As Mick suggests, check the rocker cover gasket also there is a hexagon headed 'plug' at the rear of the head (on the near side) which seals the rocker gear oil way. Other than that then it's gearbox out I'm afraid. I've always made it common practice to always check the rear core plug when rebuilding TR engines. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Tom, no leaks from anywhere simple. It really does look like the core plug. I'll be able to confirm at the end of the next week using a boroscope up in front of the flywheel. I suppose if the core plug is fitted in the normal way with sealant it should seal. it should be interesting to see what has happened. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hothersall Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi Roger, I would be interested to know what boroscope you use, bearing in mind the gap between flywheel and block is about 10mm (my guess from when I was last looking in that area). I always fancied looking at my rear seal to see if its that or the bearing cap seal using a USB boroscope Regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hothersall Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Roger Forgot to say the endoscope would be better to have a side window rather than face on John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Hi John, it is an 'old fashioned' boroscope. Apprx 8mm diameter with a swing tip so you can see straight ahead around to 120' rearwards. Getting enough illumination is always a problem but I can usually bodge that part. I'm praying it is the core plug. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Hi Folks, I have the car around my house now, up and jumbo ramps. I can't insert a boroscope as originally planned as the bottom of the gearbox means I would need a bent boroscope to get around it. However the oil is coming down the nearside of the engine rear face and Isuspect the camshaft core plug. It doesn't look like Crank oil seal. I've also found a good oil leak between the front engine plate and the block, also on the nearside near the front end of the oil gallery. I have decided to remove the engine and gearbox together. Lots of work but less heaving and grunting. I don't think the front leak can be sorted insitu. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Hi Roger, Some time back I had similar leaks from the camshaft gallery plugs, both front and rear. It is possible to repair in situ but a lot easier to do out of the car. Cheers Graeme Edited October 25, 2014 by graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi Folks, whilst my brain was on idle last night a grey cell sparked into life and came up with a worry. This engine has a leak at the front and back. The block was chemically cleaned. The leaks are coincident with the oil gallery end plugs Questions I will resolve today - are the plugs fitted, are they sealed etc etc. Bu99er Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi Folks, engine came out with little TRouble. Gearbox removed from the engine when on the ground (nice and easy) and flywheel tossed to one side.(New IWE competition) The camshaft core plug looked good. There was a small gathering of oil at the 6-o-clock position on the core plug hole but that was probably oil mist gathering. Removed the plug. Obvious signs of Welseal on the hole and the plug. Refitted a new plug. Welseal in all the right places. The oil gallery plug was insitu and had quite a residue of oil at its 6-o-clock position. But again could have been oil mist. (it would have been great to see this face with the engine running). It wasn't fully tight - I could get another 1/16th of a turn on it. No sign of sealant on the threads (probably normal) - there were signs of Hylomar on the internal end of the plug. Refitted with PTFE tape and as tight as I could get it with a large blade screw driver. The front had a leak coming from between the engine mounting plate and the front face of the block. This again was very close to the oil gallery end plug. Removal of the mounting plate showed that the gasket was of the very thin brown paper type with not a lot of sealant on the rear (leaky) face. The oil gallery plug again was not fully tight by about 1/16th of a turn and no obvious sealant on it (although this end should not be critical as it is sealed in other ways). PTEF on the threads again and refitted. The new gasket (bought as an individual item, whereas the thin one was part of a kit) is considerably thicker than the present item. On Monday the whole area will be cleaned and the new gasket fitted with Hylomar. Removal of the engine AND gearbox does add a great deal more work but is significantly easier regarding muscle. Because I am having to remove items that were recently fitted in its rebuild I am finding plenty of horror stories = front engine mount not bolted to the chassis is a minor one. Monday should be fun. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) edit- cross post with Roger!! Edited October 25, 2014 by graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Roger Start again with RTV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi Neil, many thanks for that. I was considering RTV but where do you stop. RTV - Core plug on rear of camshaft RTV - on the oil gallery rear plug RTV - on the front oil; gallery RTV - on the front mounting plate/engine block gasket. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hi Neil, many thanks for that. I was considering RTV but where do you stop. RTV - Core plug on rear of camshaft RTV - on the oil gallery rear plug RTV - on the front oil; gallery RTV - on the front mounting plate/engine block gasket. Roger The lot Roger things have moved on,bit like oil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Thank you Neil. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Roger Your welcome the best imho http://www.wurth.co.uk/technical-chemicals/sealants-and-sealing-materials/sealants-renovations-installation/super-silicone-rtv-black-200ml it does not have a long shelf life Edited October 25, 2014 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Roger, The gallery screwed plug comes as a 'stick' of 9 (PU1404) Buying the 'stick' means you can grip one end with a 'vise grip' to get it all wound in nice and tight. (with your favourite goop) Once in, you saw off the unused spares and file the stub flush to the block. If this is what you have all's well, if you have single plugs and are putting screw driver slots in them to tighten we need to have a chat as I have one NOS stick of nine in my hand now. Cheers Peter W PS Moss offer 4 plugs (328-256) as an alternative to PU1404 so they may well be selling 4 on a stick. - 2 to use & 2 to destroy with your vise grips... The item is a 3/4" UNF threaded aluminium bar, each plug is 1/2" wide. link http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=2058#16 Item 16 PPS Had an oil leak from the rear of a rebuilt engine some years back and to diagnose 'where from' I removed the gearbox and started the car with the 'box out. Once warmed I removed the flywheel and restarted using the starting handle to observe the dribble from the rear crank oil seal. Edited October 26, 2014 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Hi Pete, that is interesting. Moss are now doing them in sticks of 4. I have such a stick. I didn't realise that is the way they are inserted. Clearly they would go in much tighter that way. Removal could be fun but that is another problem. I was actually considering cutting an Allen key hole in the plug - bl**dy aircraft types (do nothing the easy way). The plugs (complete with screwdriver slot) in the block were installed by a well known engine shop and were not particularly tight. Roger Edited October 26, 2014 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Take 3/4in alloy hex-bar and single-point the thread. The run-out groove will make a place for the saw cut. Screw-driver slots! Don't think so on here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hi Folks, good news (I think ). The engine and gearbox are back where they belong and went in quite easily. The oil gallery plugs screwed in a treat using PeteW's molegrip method. They definitely felt a great deal tighter than what the screwdriver achieved. Front mounting plate is sealed and bolted down more than adequately. The 'J; type OD with its modified mounting fell into place without too much of an issue. Quite often I have a battle with the 'A' type mounting. Tomorrow I set about refitting all the bits and improving things that should have been done a while ago. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 Today I found a very good reason for installing Christian Marx's rear lip seal. When having the engine and gearbox angled to install into the car the oil runs out the back with the scroll seal all over the drive. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick999 Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Hi Roger, I am currently going through the pain of curing oil leaks on my TR4A, I had the engine rebuilt by a so called reputably company only to find they did a terrible job resulting in significant oil leaks at the front and rear of the engine. As i had the engine rebuilt over 18 months ago and have only got around to putting it back in the car and running it , I was told the warranty had expired. Rather than get hot and bothered about it I decided to remove the engine and tear it down myself and rebuild it properly. I have installed the upgraded rear main seal and can confirm it is working well. I used the one that does not need the thread machined from the crankshaft. Anyhow I have still got a small leak at the oil gallery plugs and I have removed them. they are in pretty good nick and I want to put them back in. I note in your comments that you used PTFE tape on these plugs, was that successful? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 I would use liquid ptfe. It's much easier to use than tape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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