Primer and paint

[david c]

Can't help thinking I have jumped the gun a bit, but having stripped off all the old paint from all the loose panels I was left with lots of shiny bits. Can't leave them like that for long, certainly not over winter.

So armed with a nice new spray gun I set about spraying on etch primer.

Question now is how many coats of primer do I need to put on?

Do I keep using the high build etch primer or change over to a different base coat?

I have read that I should then put on the top coat, some say within 6 hours.............? not going to happen.

I was hoping to spend the winter working on panel fit, welding in the new sills, electrics and lots of other stuff.

All advise welcome.

[Guest ntc]

Back to bare and Bondarust and job done

[RogerH]

Hi Dave,

primer is funny stuff. Most primer allows moisture through so is not a rust barrier/protection.

You should only need one layer of primer for it to do its job - but its job is not to keep water out.

High build is required just for that - but again not water proof.

2 Pack primer is water proof but sticks perhaps too well for your panel fit.

 

You could simply use a basic primer whilst doing the panel fit, then wash it off with thinners then start again.

 

Or you could do as Neil states and use Bondaprimer. This is waterproof, sticks like sh*t to the proverbial blanket and can be retouched after the panel fit.

 

Roger

[Fireman049]

Hi david c ~

 

Whatever you do DON'T use primer/filler. I used some on my 3A and when she went for painting the paint

was lifting where I'd used primer/filler and she had to go back for stripping and repainting! (an arm and a leg job!!).

By all means use a thin coat of primer and nothing else.

When my 'E'-type Jaguar goes for a respray the painter told me to leave the body well alone and they

will do everything necessary.

 

Cheers ~

Tom.

[Geko]

Years ago I remember using linseed oil to protect stored motorbike parts. Apply liberally with a brush and remove with grease remover

[stuart]

Like Neil says bare metal them and then Bondaprime/Bondarust that way it doesnt matter how long it takes to get to do it. Its also very tolerant of welding heat.forget etch prime your wasting your money.

Tom you must have been using some cheap rubbish primer/filler or a type of spraying filler as most good bodyshops use a proper primer filler to correct imperfections and fill production paper scratches.

Stuart.

Edited September 22, 2014 by stuart

[david c]

Bother,

Wish I had asked this question rather sooner!

Thanks all for the advise, so my plan now will be to go for panel fit, self tap it all together and spend the winter on odds and ends (engine, gear box overdrive and other trivia) and start the repainting over again in the spring with Bonda stuff as a base. At least it will look clean and tidy in the meantime, that lifts the spirits.

[Malbaby]

IMHO....in the following sequence

bare metal.

apply wax and grease remover to clean metal thoroughly.

etch prime asap.

panel beat any problematic areas, apply filler where necessary.

block sand any filler.

asap apply 3-4 coats of 2 pack epoxy primer, this can now be left for extended periods.

apply anti chip coat to under body and inner wheel wells.

apply the final top coat paint to the underbody and inner wheel wells soon after.

block sand the epoxy primer...all panels fitted to the car.

apply 2 pack filler primer,

leave the filler primer to harden, block sand again.

cover car to keep it clean.

leave for about 4 weeks to ensure no shrinkage.

sand in sequence with finer paper.

wax and grease remover again prior to final paint.

[david c]

Hello Malcolm

Thanks for the advise, but isn't 2 pack pro use only? Without proper facilities I doubt I could work safely without all the kit.

[stuart]

Hello Malcolm

Thanks for the advise, but isn't 2 pack pro use only? Without proper facilities I doubt I could work safely without all the kit.

It is and you dont unless you have proper breathing apparatus.

Stuart.

[Malbaby]

You can use a face mask with air filters attached..

They are not expensive.

IMHO using the 2 pack epoxy primer is essential.....does not absorb moisture and can be left untouched for lengthy periods whereas ordinary 2 pack primer filler will absorb moisture over time and could spoil your final top coat.

The only down side to the epoxy primer is that it is physically harder to block down than the non epoxy primer/filler.

[littlejim]

With my setup I would have had to follow Neil/Stuart's recommendation.

My compressor just could not put out enough air volume for painting and breathing protection.

In fact I bought a special spray gun to get the best result from the compressor.

The compressor was the one with the biggest output I could get, which could run on single phase 240v.

Edited September 30, 2014 by littlejim

[stuart]

You can use a face mask with air filters attached..

They are not expensive.

IMHO using the 2 pack epoxy primer is essential.....does not absorb moisture and can be left untouched for lengthy periods whereas ordinary 2 pack primer filler will absorb moisture over time and could spoil your final top coat.

The only down side to the epoxy primer is that it is physically harder to block down than the non epoxy primer/filler.

I wouldnt use anything other than a full face air fed mask. 2pack can be ingested through the eyes

Stuart..

[Guest ntc]

I wouldnt use anything other than a full face air fed mask. 2pack can be ingested through the eyes

Stuart..

+1 I have seen what it can do

[boxofbits]

Hi David

 

Personally think you should leave the complete job to a paint shop. A DIY paint job usually looks Shite with all due respect, anything from an artex finish to a dull matt , and not without blobs and runs! Also your average standard compressor set up is only designed to drive power tools and tyre pumps. Without expensive water traps on the induction side and pressure regulators etc, your spray gun, lines and paint will be full of water.

 

It will need to be blocked and stopped before even priming, and the finish will depend on quality of spray booth and equipment, so I'd say go professional.

 

Box

[stillp]

I wouldnt use anything other than a full face air fed mask. 2pack can be ingested through the eyes

Stuart..

And the skin.

[stillp]

Hi David

 

Personally think you should leave the complete job to a paint shop. A DIY paint job usually looks Shite with all due respect, anything from an artex finish to a dull matt , and not without blobs and runs! Also your average standard compressor set up is only designed to drive power tools and tyre pumps. Without expensive water traps on the induction side and pressure regulators etc, your spray gun, lines and paint will be full of water.

 

It will need to be blocked and stopped before even priming, and the finish will depend on quality of spray booth and equipment, so I'd say go professional.

 

Box

That depends on how careful you are, and whether you value the satisfaction of doing it yourself higher than the possible satisfaction of a marginally better finish. If you use cellulose you can flat it back and polish it until you're satisfied.

[mleadbeater]

David,

 

after around 50 years of spray painting cars and bikes, I would agree that doing a good job of painting a car is a minefield of problems if you don't have any experience and knowledge.

I strongly recommend going on a course in vehicle refinishing, you wouldn't regret it.

As for materials to use, as already stated, a good primer for steel is Bondaprimer, available through Ebay, you only need etch primer for aluminum, and then only a thin coat.

I moved away from celulose paints years ago, and only use two pack for my cars, I feel its safe if you use a full air-fed face mask with an oil-filtered supply, if your compressor is too feeble then buy a cheepie one for the mask only. A compressor of say 2.5kw, around 10 cfm, should feed both a gun with a medium air cup as well as the mask. I also recommend a gravity gun as less susceptible to paint consistency variations, and you can put on much thicker paint, ie high build primers, which a suction gun will not handle.

The benefits of 2 pack paints in my opinion are:

1) It doesn't shrink, celly dries by evaporation of solvent, 50% approx by volume, and will continue to shrink for months if not years.

2) It is easier to touch in a freshly painted panel as it stays wet for several minutes, celly dries in a few seconds.

3) Runs can be easily flatted as the paint hardens all the way through, celly skins over and can take days to harden through.

4) It goes further, as it sticks better, celly makes loads of overspray, ie wasted paint.

5) Its easy to touch-in chips with a small brush, then flatten and compound will make chips disapear.

6) It covers a lot better, 2 to 3 coats is sufficient, celly can need 5 more.

 

Following a coat of Bondaprimer, I would use Polyester spray filler, which is a sprayable body filler, and, following flatting with production paper ( ie dry ) using a backing-block wherever possible, then a few coats of 4:1, 2 pack primer/filler, then finally after flatting with fine production paper, 2 to 3 coats of 2 pack topcoat. leave overnight and flatten with 1200 grit using plenty of water and soap, immediately followed by machine compounding with a sponge head and fine finish compound ( eg Farecla G3). Leave a few days to fully harden, then an final hand polish and resin coat eg Autoglym.

 

Good luck, its a long learning curve, or, maybe better to just leave the car in primer and get a pro to do it.

 

hope this helps

 

Mike

[boxofbits]

I would agree with Mike here.

 

I wanted both my cars done in cellulose originally. I have just had my mini done in 2k, and after polishing which again was carried out by the body shop, it is a better finish than cellulose. They had even dropped cellulose in the 60's in favour of acrylic on some cars.

 

You will not be disappointed with 2k, it is more resistant against fluid spills and does not require constant elbow grease.

[Guest ntc]

I would devalue a car painted in 2k.Each to there own.

[david c]

Thank you all for your advise and for taking the time to post it.

My thoughts at the moment are having started this.... "labor of love" I really feel I'd like to see it through to the end.

So the plan is leave it in the EP21 primer over the winter it keeps everything clean and tidy and I can see where I am, meanwhile I will plug on with mechanical, electrical bits and out of the car trimming.

In the spring strip off the existing primer (only one coat on at the moment) re prime with Bonda Prime blast a few coats of spray filler at it sand it back and press on with old fashioned cellulose, I have buckets full of time to spend flating back and polishing. Cellulose worked OK for 70 years 'till 2 pack came along, My theory is these days "classics" will never have to spend most of there life on wet and windy driveways, most of them never go out in the rain! So I should last.

Who knows the boffins may come up with an isocyonate free top coat.

 

Thanks again folks.