rhino_mac Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Hi all, My 1960 TR3a (post 60,000) has plain style headlamps fitted, which I would assume were changed over when the car was imported into the UK from the US so they passed the MOT. Can anyone shed any lights on what sort of headlamps were fitted when new? Were these ones the correct ones, or were the the tripod ones the correct style? I've looked in my Original Triumph TR2/3/3a book and the green post 60,000 car in there has the tripod style. From what I can understand, the Tripod ones were fitted to UK cars after 1955 so if I am trying to get my car back to a RHD drive UK spec, these would be the lights to fit. I like the look of the Tripod ones, but I'm trying to keep the car as accurate as possible (apart from the obvious LHD to RHD conversion of course!!) and I don't want to waste money on new headlights and fit the wrong style. Thanks! Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 The tripod style, Lucas P700, were the headlights normally fitted to TR3As. I doubt if you will find any usuable ones now - they are very very hard to find, and expensive. There are replica ones that look almost identical. They don't have Lucas written on the central black part of the tripod and they also have, as an addition, provision for a sidelight within the reflector. This is fairly unobtrusive and difficult to spot. I think most people now, when they see what appears to be an original P700 light, assume it's the modern reproduction. Mine aren't! Downside is that they don't give off much light by todays standards. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 From some time in the late 1930s/early 1940s until the late 1980s, US vehicles were required to have "sealed beam headlights". These are one-piece reflector+filament +lens. A US-market car of the period would have had that kind of lamp, and a 60k plus commission number almost certainly would have had the "wide" headlamp trim rings. Not the most attractive or functional design. Lucas made a baffling range of parts, and few areas were more complicated than vehicle lighting. To their credit, Lucas left perfect records of all the parts details. You might start with the year-specific Lucas publication for S-T fitment. They're pretty easy to find and will have chapter and verse on lighting of your year's TR original specification equipment. (Note, though, that Triumph were trying to sell cars, not live by a Lucas guideline book, so differences may always be encountered that aren't necessarily "wrong".) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 I have the modern repro "tripod" headlamps in my TR3, together with halogen H4 bulbs they work pretty well. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 As stated above tripod style would be the correct fitment for UK cars but even with halogen bulbs I find them a bit wanting. Don's comment regarding the US requirement for sealed beam units is confirmed by the S-T parts list. I have fitted Cibie units with Osram Nightbreaker H4 bulbs, this combination gives much improved lighting. They are available with or without sidelights and the best price I found at the time was from Larkspeed. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I have the modern repro "tripod" headlamps in my TR3, together with halogen H4 bulbs they work pretty well. Bob. I second that! We fited these: http://www.europaspares.com/auto-electrical/lighting/headlamps/replica-p7000-headlamps-m-d-s.html Mainly because I wanted H4 bulbs and possibly fit the set of Xenon HID H4s I have in stock as they are so much brighter (but changed my mind). However, if you want cheap authenticity, try these: http://www.europaspares.com/auto-electrical/lighting/headlamps/lucas-repro-p700-headlamps-7.html Hope that helps, Ian Edited September 10, 2014 by boggie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I know they're reproduced parts but they look lovely! I won't drive my 3a at night unless I get caught out somehow so not worried about halogens. If I have regular units with bpf bulbs will my headlamp rims fit these or will I have to buy new ones? And I guess will they fit the headlamp bowl. I guess what I'm trying to say is can I spend £100 on two of these and expect to just swap them out for what I already have!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boggie Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I believe so, yes. All of these units, whether H4 or sealed beam are the same in my experience (usual disclaimers apply of course). Whilst I have not fitted the Lucas reps myself, the P7000 H4s were a direct replacement for the sealed beam that came with the car and the interim generic H4s I fitted before discovering the H4 'tripods'. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Lucas lights are all bloody terrible! I was out in my Healey last night with sealed beams that were about half as good as a Zippo lighter. I had a Silver Shadow with Quartz halogen bulb that lit the tops of trees beautifully, flared so badly you couldn't drive in a fog and shone about two car lengths ahead. The TR has some modern light units with standard bulbs and they are almost safe. Could be Wipac. I got 770s on the Bentley and they're terrible too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimt Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 If anyone is interested in an ORIGINAL NEW OLD STOCK LUCAS TRIPOD P700 - I have one for sale. It's BPF bulb fitment as on the originals - because yes it is an original. It's brand new old stock still in the Lucas box. Has the LUCAS lettering on a black round background. Asking a very reasonable £100 plus postage for this almost impossible to find item - PM me and include your email address for a picture. Also have a pair of original Bakelite - so these don't rust!! - BPF bulb holders - great condition with all clips/bulb fitment plate etc.if anyone interested? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Richard, you won't drive your TR at night?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Richard, you cannot be serious . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 The best headlamps I ever fitted to my 1966 Mini Cooper were Cibie Type 22 concave lens asymmetric dip headlamps fitted with P45 45/40 bulbs. They were fantastic. I even transferred them to my Austin Healey '100'. These cost me £5. 5s 0d in 1966 when Lucas sealed beam headlamps were (I think?) £1. 17s. 6d a pair! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Honestly Tim, probably not so much. Maybe through town in the summer months later in the evening on the way back from a pub but then most likely where there are street lights at night. On the odd occasion I need it at night I'll put up with crappy lights and just drive it carefully. But honestly, I think even that's unlikely. For me, it's a car for sunny days, picnics in the country, the odd classic car show and an excuse to spend quality me time in the garage after work with a beer in my hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Of course saying that Alec the first time I nearly run off the road in the dark because I can't see where I'm going is time I fit H4's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 The old tripods are adequate up to the legal limit . . . . . but if you're looking at ton-up through the Forest, then you need better lamps . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 H4s are much brighter but the don't overcome the problems created by the poor design of the reflectors. What happened on my Shadow is what you get in my experience. Tom is right about period Cibies, they were much better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR24178 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Driving a TR at night is one of the joys of owning the car, its sounds so different, the damp air usually makes it feel more responsive, returning from a trip or club pub meet is the motivation for going, flat cap, Barbour, scarf, blower on, lovely warm knees and feet, smells of Herefordshire wafting in, no traffic on the Mordiford road between Ross and Hereford, the lovely sweeping bends that tighten to try to catch you out, the deep throb of the 4 banger and flicking rev counter needle as I keep the revs up with the overdrive switch TR motoring at its best, Don't just use it on sunny days! By the way I have repro tripods with low rated H4 halogen (small Jap alternator) and they are brilliant almost as good as our Mini Clubman All4 John Worthing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ashley James Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Driving a TR at night is one of the joys of owning the car, its sounds so different, the damp air usually makes it feel more responsive, returning from a trip or club pub meet is the motivation for going, flat cap, Barbour, scarf, blower on, lovely warm knees and feet, smells of Herefordshire wafting in, no traffic on the Mordiford road between Ross and Hereford, the lovely sweeping bends that tighten to try to catch you out, the deep throb of the 4 banger and flicking rev counter needle as I keep the revs up with the overdrive switch TR motoring at its best, Don't just use it on sunny days! By the way I have repro tripods with low rated H4 halogen (small Jap alternator) and they are brilliant almost as good as our Mini Clubman All4 John Worthing That's done it! I'm in tears of emotion now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TorontoTim Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Richard: joking aside, each of us should enjoy our car however we choose. Some like to polish every bolt to (at least) as good as new, some like to drive them, top down, on those wonderful, sunny, dry days that open-top sports cars were made for and keep them safe from rain, dark or (perish the thought) salt and some like to rally or trial them - the dirtier, the better. I wouldn't, seriously, argue with any of them. I have my own preferences, and anyone else is quite entitled to theirs. The ONLY thing that really concerns me is if you'd LIKE to drive at night (or any other time of day) and the headlights are stopping you; if that's the case, there are many ways to improve either the original lights (get wiring and earths back up to "as new" standard) or to upgrade with H4 halogen bulbs, relays, etc. My personal choice is to drive my TR anywhere, anytime - and I have ensured that I have lights that enable that. Are they as good as the latest, modern headlights? No, probably not. But it IS possible to have acceptable lighting in a TR3 or 4 to safely drive unlit, country roads - and remember, here in Canada we have to contend with Moose and other lovely creatures waiting to jump out of the dark verge and kill us!!! Edited September 13, 2014 by TorontoTim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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