TR3a Spare wheel wont fit in cubby

[boggie]

Interesting, thanks Mike. Is your car post-60000? Mine is too but the 155 Kumho on a 60 spoke will not go in inflated.

Also, i am curious; 60 and 72 spokes with 165? Have you two sets or are you using 60 front, 72 rear?

Cheers,

Ian

[mleadbeater]

Ian,

 

just got my new tyres, 165 80 15, and they will fit thro spare wheel door, on both 60 and 72 spokers.

 

Mike

[Rodbr]

I would be interested to know how many have checked the actual aperture size, the difference in a car that retains the original boot floor (potentially years of jacks,tool boxes , the wife's suitcase etc) thus depressed slightly and reducing the space for a spare wheel, and a repro floor with marginal fit may just be the difference. Also the paint thickness, stone chip etc etc further reduces the gap.on certain cars. Why else would Mike's car accommodate an inflated 165x 80x 15 when others struggle to get a 155 in!

 

Scissor jack and couple of bits of hard wood plank seem the first way to go.

#

My own car has original boot floor and struggling to get a partially deflated 165x 15 to go more than half way in.

[BrianC]

Sidewalls on modern tyres are thicker and can prevent insertion of an inflated or partially inflated spare. I discovered this when I replaced my ancient G800 (165 on original steel wheel) with a same size Vredestein T-Trac. It's only a minor inconvenience to have to pump up the spre if/when needed.

[boggie]

Scissor jack and couple of bits of hard wood plank seem the first way to go.

 

I hope that is a joke Rod! :-)

[Rodbr]

Ian,

Why would it be a joke? How would you raise the floor if it was depressed? Spreading the load makes sense to me and infinite control. My Tr2 had the imprint of about half a ton Scottish granite on the leading edge of wheel well from a trip off piste by the PO. It made getting the spare wheel out.

[boggie]

 

I would be interested to know how many have checked the actual aperture size, the difference in a car that retains the original boot floor (potentially years of jacks,tool boxes , the wife's suitcase etc) thus depressed slightly and reducing the space for a spare wheel, and a repro floor with marginal fit may just be the difference. Also the paint thickness, stone chip etc etc further reduces the gap.on certain cars. Why else would Mike's car accommodate an inflated 165x 80x 15 when others struggle to get a 155 in!

 

Scissor jack and couple of bits of hard wood plank seem the first way to go.

#

My own car has original boot floor and struggling to get a partially deflated 165x 15 to go more than half way in.

Rod,

When you were talking about aperture size I thought you were joking (hence the smiley).

In the case of our car (and I believe this is not uncommon) the issue is indeed the spare wheel aperture. What you say above seems to advocate putting a jack/wood between the top and bottom of the apperture (IE opening) itself, not the internal space inside the cubby, and using a jack to apply around 1 ton pressure to spread the two apart. Now, whilst this would possibly result in the spare wheel sliding in to the wheel cubby easily through the aperture it would obviously deform the surrounding rear panel, return edges and channel around the opening. I am sure I have misunderstood but perhaps mention of the aperture rather than the internal cubby space was where I went wrong.

As I see it: If the distance between the boot floor and cubby floor is the issue in getting a spare wheel in then, with great care the use of load spreading blocks and a jack may help but ensure this is not done too close to the aperture or cubby sides as this could cause damage. If the aperture itself is the problem: get a narrower wheel/tyre combo.

Does that sound right?

Cheers,

Ian

Edited September 5, 2014 by boggie

[boggie]

PS: Our car has the original, post-TS60000 boot floor (that does not look too deformed) and original rear panel aperture (with parallel top/bottom faces) but a 60 spoke 5J rim with a 155R15 Kumho tyre will not go in at all...

 

Ian

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Ian,

 

TRs were built by blokes in brown coats on piecework. If it touched, it fitted, so gob it together.

 

Apertures varied in size, wheel wells varied in size. Especially Monday morning and Friday afternoon cars.

 

OK, boot floors could be lowered by weight, well floors raised by road contact, and the internal application of jacks and/or levers may correct that.

 

Apertures didn't change much, not until accident repair or rebuild. Brute force won't correct anything here, just create mayhem.

 

TR 48 spoke wires are 4" bead seat width, 60 spoke are 4.5", 72 or 70 spoke are 5.5". Metal, fixed dimensions, don't vary.

 

Tyres are rubber, dimensions vary with pressure and with rim dimension, width. Overall width of a 155 or 165 tyre can be slightly smaller on a 60 spoke than a 48 spoke rim -- the wider bead seat results in less curvature of the sidewall. That depends on the tyre brand. Some brands of tyre have markedly more or less curvature than others, for the same nominal tread width on the same width rims at the same pressure. That's a result of differing carcass designs.

So it's impossible to generalise as to precisely what will or won't fit . . . . at least in my experience, which extends to more than just a few sidescreen cars over more than 45 years.

 

You're an engineer, and you know your own car better than any Forum pundit. The more I learn about TRs, the more I realise how much more there is . . . . . and that generalisations can be optimistic, to put it kindly.

 

You're making your own informed decisions, having taken on board the advice and opinions of others. That's fine ! Well done.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[T Rusty]

Im a 1943 model with, I would guess, several hundred thousend miles covered and the last time I experienced a flat tyre was in 1962 or 1963.

 

I just finished (if a home restoration can ever be called finished) restoring my 1961 Tr3a. When I bought the car there was no spare tyre and in the few months since finishing it I have covered 2600 kilometers. I confess that until I paged through the forum tonight I never gave a second thought to not having a spare. I do have a can of squirt repair however.

 

I will now be looking for an original steel wheel for a 1961 Tr3a but in the meantime I'd be interested in knowing if I am the only guy around who doesn't get a flat tyre on a regular basis?

 

I had planned on taking my car on a drive tomorrow morning but now I'm worried about not having a spare tyre. I should have read a book.

[boggie]

Thanks chaps.

 

I think I have a 48 spoke, thanks to another register member. When I have a solution that works I will report back here.

 

Have a good weekend!

[stuart]

One point not often mentioned is that when these cars were new we were all running around on crossply tires that had much more upright sidewalls. This is ultimately what makes the difference these days as modern tyres tend to have a lot more of a curved sidewall.

Stuart.

[TR24178]

Just home from nearly 3 weeks holidays in France with the TR2 (on trailer behind motorhome) done about 1500 miles in the car, in the Pyrenees, Dordogne and the Loire. (Superb weather, just had a ball driving a Tr on empty roads and roads without potholes!!)

 

I never gave a single thought to punctures on my Vdresteins and 60 spoke wires BUT when I put her on the road last year I put a steel wheel with a ZX tyre and appropriate nuts and sockets for changing the wheel and the adaptor in the locker.

 

Reading all the sages' tireless keyboard work above, I have to say I never gave any of the implications a thought.

 

So to have legal set of wheels and tyres should I remove the luggage boot floor, remodel the cut away panel with an overlap and raised section and then some fasteners to hold it in place.

 

What are the insurance and authenticity implications on modding structural bodywork?

 

John Worthing

[mleadbeater]

Ian

 

I have 72 spoke on the rear, and 60 front, all with Toyo 165 80 15 tyres, which all fit through the aperture, though my car has a new repro body and no boot floor over the well, maybe this make the difference. The aperture door is an original so the aperture should be the original size plus or minus a little.

 

Mike

[boggie]

Cheers Mike, can you tell me the Toyo type please?

[Alec Pringle]

As far as insurance implications are concerned, 'space saver' spares and modified boot floors alike, maybe this is one for Mark at the TR Register insurance office ?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Rodbr]

Just get one of these and save all the agro

http://www.leacyclassics.com/parts/triumph/tr2-4a/wheels/wwp450.html

Cheap and cut out potential risk from an ancient wheel which wasn't that strong when new.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Rodbr

[Alec Pringle]

But the page says "out of stock" . . . . . .

 

And in any case, it doesn't solve the possible legal problem of mismatched wheels.

 

On the assumption that a 'space saver' is only going to be used relatively locally and at relatively low speeds, the useage of an original wheel in decent condition is probably adequate.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Fireman049]

Here is what I did to make a 5.5" rim and 165 tyre to fit my 3A.

Works perfectly. It can also accommodate a 6" rim with 185 section tyre.

 

No negative responses please.

 

Tom.

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Fireman049

[McMuttley]

Hi Tom - I assume the boot floor remains loose(ish) i.e. not welded ? If so you can get to the parts stowed with the wheel - I have forgotten what I have stowed inside the spare !

 

As a reminder to all, I have 4 spare silver painted 48 spokers (with naff tyres but decent tread for emergency use) - but you will need to prise them from TRE Tom.

[Fireman049]

Hi McMuttley ~

 

Yes, the boot floor is removable otherwise you could never remove the spare wheel

through the spare wheel door! This, by the way makes my spare wheel safe from thieves.

 

​I've yet to devise a method of securing the boot floor and make it easily removable ~

magnetic strip maybe?

 

Another 'plus' point is the fact that the spare wheel pan is easily repairable.

 

Cheers ~

Tom.

[Paul Down]

Tom, in removing the boot floor you must have reduced the integrity of the rear body substantially. Is this a good idea?

[Fireman049]

Paul ~

 

The body is supported by a very substantial chassis. A bit of tin flooring aint going to make much difference.

 

Tom.

[Stevecross]

Re spare emergency wheels.

 

I am lucky enough( !!??) to have a Maserati 3200GT tucked away that was bought new by my wealthy but eccentric Aunt in 2001 but is now in my possession.

 

It came new with 265 profile tyres on the rear but 235 on the front. The emergency wheel is, from memory.145.

On the one occasion I ever fitted it , it looked ridiculous.

 

When the booted & suited salesman brought a demo car up to us for approval he set great store by telling us that he had just returned from an intensive product course in Bolognia (I think at the time).

He was doing the add on thing and said most of his clients went for a full spare wheel rather than he emergency wheel.

This would only add another 1k to the purchase price.

When I asked him which tyre size we should specify to take account of the size difference he went pale, shuffled a bit, mumbled and said that perhaps the wheel as supplied was sufficient for our needs.

Steve

[Alec Pringle]

But the boot floor is rather more than just "a bit of tin flooring" . . . . . it's the largest side of a box, and as such contributes a significant degree of stiffness to the rear end.

 

The rear of the chassis is by no means as stiff as one might think from looking at it, even when it is new and solid . . . . rather than ageing and suffering from at least some degree of tinworm.

 

Tom's is a neat solution, and a lot better than driving round with a mismatched spare.

 

I'd assume Tom already has some good strong bolts securing a stronger than standard panel to captive nuts below ?

 

It could be further improved by, for example, some additional internal bracing inside the boot, and by a good sturdy firewall to seal the boot and tank from the passenger compartment. It's surprising just how much a proper firewall does improve the car.

 

Of course Tom may well already have incorporated such improvements in his car !

 

Cheers

 

Alec