Smokey Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I have received some new side windows (drop glass?) for my TR4 to replace the TR6 glass I was supplied by Moss USA. However, the local supplier is unable to confirm whether it was delivered from the UK or the US. (All US suppliers provide the incorrect TR6 glass for a TR4.) The glass I have should be Moss Europe part no. 750135. The markings on it are: OMEGA-AUTOMOTIVE.COM, capitalglass, Tempered TS917, 43R - 00321 DOT6, 4.5-6.5 B.Y. 08. Now my arcane question: does anyone have 750135 glass and if so, could you confirm that the above markings are correct for 750135? It would save me the time of taking apart the door to check against the TR6 glass in the door right now. (All this is to fit the glass to my new hardtop.) Thanks for any help you can provide. Moss Europe has 750135 on backorder right now, so they cannot check the numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Hi Smokey, I am not sure if this helps you. I have TR4A windows which were manufactured independently some four or five years ago when only TR6 glasses were available from Moss. The markings are as follows: Tyneside Toughened AS2 M10 DOT 64 E11 43R-00055. The E11 is in a circle which I believe is a European type approval marking. Omega Automotive is a Turkish company with an office in the UK, it may be worth contacting them for confirmation. http://www.omega-automotive.com/ Hope this is of some help. Edited October 15, 2009 by graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi Graeme, that's helpful. I have since confirmed with Moss UK that the markings on the glass only indicate the type of glass, and there is no part number embossed on the glass itself. I believe I have the correct part, and I'll confirm (or not) when we actually try to fit it. It should become clear when I compare it to the TR5/TR6 glass currently in my car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi Smokey, Whats the difference between the TR4 & 6 glass? I always thought Karmann et al didnt redesign the doors...be interested to know how to spot the right glass. I have received some new side windows (drop glass?) for my TR4 to replace the TR6 glass I was supplied by Moss USA. ...........(All US suppliers provide the incorrect TR6 glass for a TR4.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hi Dave, the difference is shown in the Technicalities CD, and is apparently required by the different window regulators used on the TR4/TR4A versus the TR5/TR6. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Hi Dave, the shape is almost the same BUT!! not quite. The bottom edge of the TR6 glass, where it fits into the regulator horizontal channel, is a slightly different angle to the 4A glass and this has the effect of tilting the TR6 glass forward if fitted in a 4A regulator. This then doesn't fit up against the front screen too well. When no 4A glass was available, a few years ago, there where various mod's to overcome the tilting. Roger Edited October 16, 2009 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 A follow-up note to all North American TR4/TR4A owners: I spoke to Moss USA, explained the problem, and sent them the excerpt from the Technicalities CD. They had always believed that the TR4 and TR6 windows were the same, probably as advised by Heritage or a Triumph technical bulletin. The Roadster Factory told me the same thing: the windows are identical. Moss USA get their windows from Moss Europe, and they said they would now start ordering the proper TR4/TR4A window as well. I guess Moss USA and Moss Europe don't talk very much. My new 750135 window was ordered by my supplier from Moss Europe, and Moss USA told me it would have been delivered from the UK, so it's probably the correct window. My other problem was that no one in the UK or North America had glazing strips, which no one uses any more, but I finally found some at Victoria British. I'm going to do an engine rebuild this winter, so I'll be here seeking lots of advice on that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardix Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Hi, This discussion has also been very useful for me, because I have the same problem. My TR4(A) car with ethe wrong door glasses. Only, I am a little bit confused, because it is not completely clear which one is the TR4 and which one is the TR6 window (and my supplier of the door glass told me the opposite of your information). If I understand it correct, the window with the almost horizontal bottom of the glass is the TR6 window and the glass with the bottom under an angle (in the PDF picture the dashed line) is an TR4(A) window. Thank you for your help. kind regards, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted January 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 The supposed TR4 glass I received was a worse fit than the glass I have - even more forward tilt - and I have given up on the suppliers. I made a template, and am in the process of having two windows custom made - cut, polished and tempered. The cost was only a little more than the ready-made ones, and I'll report on the results when they are fitted. The current windows fit ok with a soft top because there is more room for error, but they won't fit my new hardtop. It's not clear from the Technicalities sketch which is the TR4 window and which is the TR6 window, so I can't help there. It's clear that the window regulators were changed for the TR5/TR250/TR6, although the doors are basically the same. I now wish I had just kept the original TR4 glass the car came with, even with the scratches. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 it just so happens rear 2 1/4 inches front 2 3/8 inches. this glass is out of my '67 TR4A. It fitted OK all that time ago when it was in one bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I'm after some related free info. Moss TR2-4A cattledog shows #78 - 850430ft - channel for glass, but can't see any mention of 'felt'. In mine the felt was stonkered and I've cleaned it all off. Can you get the felt lining? Any reference numbers? If all else fails I've worked out how to line the channel with the 'fluffy' half of some velcro tape as a substitute. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted January 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi Littlejim, TRF in the US supplies the window channels with the lining. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Pete Fenlon is also doing a great line in refurbed door channels. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KnightsT Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 If (as I think you are) you're talking about the vertical channels (as opposed to the horizintal one the window clamps into and is attached to the winder), then TRGB sell the felt liner - by the metre and very reasonable. Mine were shot completely, but the channel cleaned out well and the replacement, aided with a little contact adhesive, fitted in very well. Look as good as new. Mick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
richardix Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 I have measured my windows too. I have two kind of windows and put on each other ( see pictures) complying with the pdf drawing from the Technicalities (windows 1) a difference of 13 mm at the bottom edge. Also attached a sketch with the dimensions. But now I am a little bit confused. When putting both windows on each other, with the bottom edge (where it will fit the window regulator), Window 1 will be tilted to the front and according to other postings, be a TR6 window. Although, if you look at the dimensions and the clear pictures of Mr. Littlejim, Window 1 should be the TR4 window. To adjust the window and channels you can use the 1964 Service bulletin, page 23. http://www.tjwakeman.net/TR/PDFs/1964.pdf kind regards, Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Mick, thanks for the info. have just done driver's door with the furry velcro, PITA because of the sticky backing, but possible. Would like to buy some of the 'proper' stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 All, It may be hard to believe...but 2 years after this earlier discussion I appear to have exactly this problem!!.... rebuild nearly finished & both side windows are angled too far for forward by about 10 degrees... The windows & regulators are from my ex-texas bitsa... they *look* the same as my ex-UK 1967 glass & regulators.... what were these mods to overcome this??? looks like I need to move a pivot point by about 1inch... dave Hi Dave, the shape is almost the same BUT!! not quite. The bottom edge of the TR6 glass, where it fits into the regulator horizontal channel, is a slightly different angle to the 4A glass and this has the effect of tilting the TR6 glass forward if fitted in a 4A regulator. This then doesn't fit up against the front screen too well. When no 4A glass was available, a few years ago, there where various mod's to overcome the tilting. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi Dave, have you got the 'Technicalities' CD. This has two solutions within. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi Roger, I once had the technicalities CD but it has entered my filing system, which means it's unlikely to reappear for 5000 years. I'd truly appreciate if someone could describe to me these fixes .... or has anyone here had this problem?? I did wonder if the windscreen 'rake angle' could be wrong...but surely cannot be, huh?? dave Hi Dave, have you got the 'Technicalities' CD. This has two solutions within. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Dave, the windscreen rake angle is adjustable. However if you have a surrey top make sure the gap is adequate for the roof fixings. You can buy new correct glass now if your old glass has the wrong angle for the bottom channel. Have you got the wrong glass!!! It is possible to get a small amount of adjustment by moving the regulator pivot. If you want to make the wrong glass fit then it is possible to modify the regulator scissors. This involves cutting 3/4 of the way through one or other of the scissor arms and bending to make the bottom channel horizontal. You need to brace the cut arm afterwards. It is all quite easy but looks painful when doing. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi Roger & All, Should've read the manual, as you say there is some windscreen rake angle adjustment and that was a major step in getting the alignment. I only loosened the easily accessible top 2 bolts on the 'A'post with the doors open & was able to get the windscreen more 'upright' by about 7 degrees....so I think with a little furtling on the lower fixings behing the kick panels I should have corrected my problem. That certainly makes more sense compared to having the 'wrong' glass, since all my parts came from '66/'67 4As...and a lot less painful than taking an angle grinder to the control arm.... thanks again for the suggestions & guidance, dave Hi Dave, the windscreen rake angle is adjustable. However if you have a surrey top make sure the gap is adequate for the roof fixings. You can buy new correct glass now if your old glass has the wrong angle for the bottom channel. Have you got the wrong glass!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob@robmorgan.plus.com Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Hi, This discussion has also been very useful for me, because I have the same problem. My TR4(A) car with ethe wrong door glasses. Only, I am a little bit confused, because it is not completely clear which one is the TR4 and which one is the TR6 window (and my supplier of the door glass told me the opposite of your information). If I understand it correct, the window with the almost horizontal bottom of the glass is the TR6 window and the glass with the bottom under an angle (in the PDF picture the dashed line) is an TR4(A) window. Thank you for your help. kind regards, Richard you need to heat up rear angle part of regulator and pull down on rear of window. that puts a slight bend Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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