TR4A Front anti-roll bar

[BrianC]

Back in the early '70s when I had my first TR4A, I fitted an front anti-roll bar. As far as I can recall, it was a standard item from a Triumph dealer, not the SAH version, and fitted directly and with minimal effort. I do remember that the transformation was quite noticeable and I would like to fit an ARB to Lynda's TR4A at some stage. However, the TR4A parts catalogue doesn't seem to list an ARB, and the Moss catalogue offers only the TR6 bar which requires a change of radiator shield.

 

Does anyone know whether there ever was a TR4A front ARB or is it more likely that I was supplied with the TR6 version at the time?

 

If so, why do Moss state that the radiator shield needs to be changed when I didn't need to last time? What differences are there between TR4A and TR6 (or TR5 for that matter) that affect the fitting of the ARB?

[Robin Powell]

Hi Brian

 

The SAH anti roll bar was supplied with brackets that bolted to the chassis where the bumper bracket is bolted on like the unit that Revington supplies for the TR4. The TR6 radiator shield is bigger than the 4A one and comes pre-drilled with holes for the anti rollbar U bolts so that is why a change is required as they don't supply separate brackets.

 

I installed the TR6 shield and roll bar to my TR4A some years ago and has proved very good. You can quite often pick up second hand TR6 radiator shields so the cost is not excessive.

 

Cheers

[67_gt6]

I picked up a TR6 guard from TRGB at a very reasonable cost. Combined with poly bushes top and bottom the front end feels considerably more planted. You also need the little brackets that connect the drop links to the wishbones.

 

andy

[ianc]

Beware the "little drop link brackets".

I remember seeing a thread on the Forum a while ago about a certain supplier's drop link brackets fracturing. Given that this is most likely to happen when under extreme cornering - which is precisely when you wouldn't wish it to happen - make sure you get something fit for purpose.

Ian Cornish

[Smokey]

I added the original factory anti-sway bar to my 1962 TR4, and it definitely improved the handling. Getting the parts together was a chore, but all the brackets etc. were available through a combination of Moss USA and Victoria British, altough neither one had the full set. The bar itself is unavailable, but a UK TR Register member had one and was kind enough to send me a photo and measurements, and I had a local race shop here in Toronto fabricate it. Another Triumph owner in the US had an original installation manual, and sent me a copy showing where to drill, etc.

Going way off topic, my TR4 won First Place In Showroom Stock, TR4/TR4a at the Vintage Triumph Register Convention in Michigan last week,and maybe the bar helped.

[bob-menhennett]

Smokey

 

Congratulaions on the First Prize...I bet the smile hasn't disappeared from your face just yet !!

 

Bob

[monty]

Hi Brian

 

The SAH anti roll bar was supplied with brackets that bolted to the chassis where the bumper bracket is bolted on like the unit that Revington supplies for the TR4. The TR6 radiator shield is bigger than the 4A one and comes pre-drilled with holes for the anti rollbar U bolts so that is why a change is required as they don't supply separate brackets.

 

I installed the TR6 shield and roll bar to my TR4A some years ago and has proved very good. You can quite often pick up second hand TR6 radiator shields so the cost is not excessive.

 

Cheers

 

Hi,

Can the original rad shield not be drilled to accept the TR4A anti-roll bar listed by Moss as TT3282 (which is similar to the SAH)?

I am thinking of fitting this item so any hints would be welcome.

Regards,

Monty.

[PaulAnderson]

I've had the TR6 radiator shield protector piece and anti-roll bar to fit to my car for some time but have not gotten around to fitting it yet. I’ve a couple of queries on this

 

1. The spring pan has a turned down edge to it and the mounting bracket is flat and over sized so do I have to pack out the bottom of the mounting bolt underneath the pan / wishbone with washers to take up the gap?

 

2. To fit the mounting bracket to the lower wishbones one of the six bolts obviously has to come out. As the cars assembled and in use will there be any distortion of the spring pan when I do this and do I have to therefore brace it or use a spring compressor, or does it not matter with only one bolt out for a short while?

 

As a related matter are there any geometry issues to fitting it as the informative articles at this site http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/SwayBar.htm suggest that the control arm and anti roll bar end should be parallel when installed correctly. He's obviously dealing with a much meatier system than a standard TR6 system though. On that, I spoke to a couple of suppliers at Stoneleigh and they both advised that the standard TR6 bar was too thin but their alternatives required spending larger sums of money and a standard TR6 bar is better than none.

 

Paul

[monty]

I've had the TR6 radiator shield protector piece and anti-roll bar to fit to my car for some time but have not gotten around to fitting it yet. I’ve a couple of queries on this

 

1. The spring pan has a turned down edge to it and the mounting bracket is flat and over sized so do I have to pack out the bottom of the mounting bolt underneath the pan / wishbone with washers to take up the gap?

 

2. To fit the mounting bracket to the lower wishbones one of the six bolts obviously has to come out. As the cars assembled and in use will there be any distortion of the spring pan when I do this and do I have to therefore brace it or use a spring compressor, or does it not matter with only one bolt out for a short while?

 

As a related matter are there any geometry issues to fitting it as the informative articles at this site http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/SwayBar.htm suggest that the control arm and anti roll bar end should be parallel when installed correctly. He's obviously dealing with a much meatier system than a standard TR6 system though. On that, I spoke to a couple of suppliers at Stoneleigh and they both advised that the standard TR6 bar was too thin but their alternatives required spending larger sums of money and a standard TR6 bar is better than none.

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

I have just ordered a TR6 anti-roll bar & associated bits to fit from Clive Manvers who assures me that it will fit a TR4A with no problem in regard to standard rad shield (couple of holes may need to be drilled). I am going down the Manvers route after much conflicting advice & the usual lack of response from certain TR suppliers.

Regards.

[stuart]

I've had the TR6 radiator shield protector piece and anti-roll bar to fit to my car for some time but have not gotten around to fitting it yet. I’ve a couple of queries on this

 

1. The spring pan has a turned down edge to it and the mounting bracket is flat and over sized so do I have to pack out the bottom of the mounting bolt underneath the pan / wishbone with washers to take up the gap?

 

2. To fit the mounting bracket to the lower wishbones one of the six bolts obviously has to come out. As the cars assembled and in use will there be any distortion of the spring pan when I do this and do I have to therefore brace it or use a spring compressor, or does it not matter with only one bolt out for a short while?

 

As a related matter are there any geometry issues to fitting it as the informative articles at this site http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/SwayBar.htm suggest that the control arm and anti roll bar end should be parallel when installed correctly. He's obviously dealing with a much meatier system than a standard TR6 system though. On that, I spoke to a couple of suppliers at Stoneleigh and they both advised that the standard TR6 bar was too thin but their alternatives required spending larger sums of money and a standard TR6 bar is better than none.

 

Paul

Original fitment on the brackets on the lower arms had a distance piece to take up the gap but obviously washers will do and dont worry about removing the bolt as if it did distort you have other problems

Once fitted the drop links should be vertical to the bar with the car sitting at its normal ride height although I have seen quite a few aftermarket ones that arent

Stuart.

[660851]

I purchased a front roll bar kit and sump shield Skid pan for a TR4

Anti-Roll Bar Kit, front, 3/4" diameter Part Number: TT3181

Radiator Shield Anti Roll Bar Mounting 301644

Has anyone found that these don't fit the TR4 the skid pan is really to narrow to bolt well to chassis frame and in fact the repro part is 1/4 inch narrower than the original part, the roll bar actually touches the bumper bar mounting brackets.

Has anyone had this trouble or more importantly know of better made well fitting parts

terry

Australia

[Motorsport Mickey]

Terry,

 

Have a search on this forum for anti roll bar on the TR4 forum, there's considerable info about them on there.

 

Myself having raced a TR4 you'll find the standard handling from Standard Triumph gives you understeer and when you fit a front anti roll bar it changes to UNDERSTEER. You really need to fit a rear anti roll bar with it to try and neutralise the handling, only fitting a bar at one end or the other changes two things counter intuitively, the cross car stiffness gained changes the other end also, fitting a pair of bars with the front being stronger than the rear will improve the handling.

In my experience the car handles better as it is without a front anti roll bar alone.

 

Mick Richards

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

TR4 original front anti roll bar.

 

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/front-suspension/front-anti-roll-bar-tr4.html

 

I have an used powder coated bar - item 1

and a pair of new powder coated attachment brackets item 10

 

PM if interested to buy

 

Peter W

 

PS: This is what I would buy though - Spitfire 7/8" bar, heavier than standard TR6 & fits the TR2-6 nicely. (it is the Moss upgrade bar) Make your own bracket work.

Someone remarked Suzuki Swift was a good fit too.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-SPITFIRE-MK4-1500-7-8-ANTI-ROLL-BAR-/172681942313?hash=item2834a55529:g:Ax0AAOSwq1JZHdgo

 

PPS This is what I have used to attach the links to the lower wishbones rather than the bent bits of metal.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/eyeboltsan46.php

Edited May 24, 2017 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Alec Pringle]

Back in the day the front arb from a 'Series' Humber, Hawk or Super Snipe or Imperial, was a favoured option available in at least 3 diameters depending on Humber model and year.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Malbaby]

Can you please post pics of the sway bar with the eyebolt install.

Also, which number eyebolt did you use.

 

 

 

 

TR4 original front anti roll bar.

 

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/front-suspension/front-anti-roll-bar-tr4.html

 

I have an used powder coated bar - item 1

and a pair of new powder coated attachment brackets item 10

 

PM if interested to buy

 

Peter W

 

PS: This is what I would buy though - Spitfire 7/8" bar, heavier than standard TR6 & fits the TR2-6 nicely. (it is the Moss upgrade bar) Make your own bracket work.

Someone remarked Suzuki Swift was a good fit too.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-SPITFIRE-MK4-1500-7-8-ANTI-ROLL-BAR-/172681942313?hash=item2834a55529:g:Ax0AAOSwq1JZHdgo

 

PPS This is what I have used to attach the links to the lower wishbones rather than the bent bits of metal.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/eyeboltsan46.php

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Malcolm Linda Baker

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Sorry will not be able to post pics till June as the car is away and in bits.

Peter W

 

PS I think the part no was AN46-20 being 3/8unf with 3/8 eye and nominal length of 2" grip or plain shank 1 7/16"

 

The original bolt is a BH606161 - this is a 3/8 hex head with 2" nominal length, but shorter grip

You could just measure the grip length require on your car ie wishbone + spring pan thickness.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/eyeboltsan46.php

Edited May 26, 2017 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

You are in luck.....

I have created a mock up from spares on the bench - I am not sure if the eye of the eye bolt is at the top or bottom on my car.

Yes it is AN46-20 eye bolt

 

mocked up using rose joints rather that orig factory roll bar links, as I do not have any.

 

pic1 is 5/8" roll bar with eye end from TR4

pic 2 is 7/8" roll bar with stud end from Spitfire 1500

 

Cheers

Peter W

 

 

 

[Malbaby]

Peter...thanks for the pics.

Is there any advantage one way or the other in using a Spitfire bar compared to a TR6 bar on a TR4A.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Other than the bigger diameter of the Spitfire 1500 bar over the TR6 - no - in fact the Spitfire use of a single sheer stud to connect the bar to the roll bar link is distinctly poor engineeing. The eye connection of TR6 is a whole lot better.

Read this for some insight into KISS and stronger engineeing practice.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/710357.Carroll_Smith_s_Nuts_Bolts_Fasteners_and_Plumbing_Handbook

 

Peter W

Edited May 27, 2017 by BlueTR3A-5EKT