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calling all suspension experts


Guest james67

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Hi to all especially suspension experts

 

I am changing all 4 of the springs on my 1967 TR4A and at the same time was thinking of lowering it as well I am running 5.5x15 inch wire wheeals . I was looking for some guidance on the best way to go. I see in the Rimmer Brothers catalogue that they show two types, standard and uprated/lowered springs. I was wondering if anyone out there had fitted uprated/lowered and how much did it lower the car and what was the ride like.

Any advice would be gratefully received. New at this forum so please bear with me.

 

Many thanks James

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I've run uprated & lowered springs on my 6 for years however our roads have deteriorated over the last decade (not to mention the speed ramps!) and am planning to revert to a more standard ride hight (uprated) to avoid bottoming.

 

By all means go uprated but think carefully about lowering the suspension too much.

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Guest james67
I've run uprated & lowered springs on my 6 for years however our roads have deteriorated over the last decade (not to mention the speed ramps!) and am planning to revert to a more standard ride hight (uprated) to avoid bottoming.

 

By all means go uprated but think carefully about lowering the suspension too much.

 

Andy

Money thank for that very good points did not even think of the speed humps thing mmmmm

james

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We have just had uprated springs fitted to Lynda's TR4A as it was getting expensive on exhaust systems :(

The new springs are longer TR6 springs and as well as giving improved ground clearance, the handling is greatly improved.

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Brian

My Tr4a has always looked low at the back end, not sure what springs are fitted as they came with the car! The front is fine and looks about right

Have you changed the rear, or all round, be interested to know which springs you fitted and where from.

Regards

Dale

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Interesting that this topic should come up again, as I found reference to it when discussed some months ago during my research. The back end on my '65 4A looks too low and, checking the ground clearance, is as much as an inch down. Hence I decided to change the springs last weekend and got a replacement set of standard coil springs from Moss (Pt No GSV 1001). Having managed to fit them, I found the damper arm was hard against the lower bump stop and the ride height over an inch too high (1/2 tank and toolbox and coolant in the boot) - it looked even worse than before. I checked the trailing arm mounting brackets to see if they were fitted the right way round (notch to the top) and they were, so the old springs went back on. Could have tried new lowered springs but these are all uprated and the roads I use do not encourage the use of a stiff suspension. Don't think it is a wheel or tyre size as the front is OK and the wheels are OE steel.

 

Be grateful for advice as to where one can get standard rate 4A springs if such things exist, which when fitted give the correct ride height, or suggestions as to what else can be done to solve the problem - a special spacer perhaps? I understand Moss, Rimmer and TRGB standard springs are all the same. (As far as I know, the GSV1001 springs are actually for the TR6 and compared with those that came off, have at least one more coil and a wire diameter that is 3/32 greater (17/32 as against 7/16)). Interestingly, Moss tell me that my front (short) springs with spacer are from a TR4 and not a 4A (the OE 4A springs don't need the spacer apparently).

 

Horse

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You mention 3 suppliers, but not Revington - surely worth a call, as he does lots of modifications to improve suspension (and just about everything else, too)!

Ian Cornish

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Guest james67
Interesting that this topic should come up again, as I found reference to it when discussed some months ago during my research. The back end on my '65 4A looks too low and, checking the ground clearance, is as much as an inch down. Hence I decided to change the springs last weekend and got a replacement set of standard coil springs from Moss (Pt No GSV 1001). Having managed to fit them, I found the damper arm was hard against the lower bump stop and the ride height over an inch too high (1/2 tank and toolbox and coolant in the boot) - it looked even worse than before. I checked the trailing arm mounting brackets to see if they were fitted the right way round (notch to the top) and they were, so the old springs went back on. Could have tried new lowered springs but these are all uprated and the roads I use do not encourage the use of a stiff suspension. Don't think it is a wheel or tyre size as the front is OK and the wheels are OE steel.

 

Be grateful for advice as to where one can get standard rate 4A springs if such things exist, which when fitted give the correct ride height, or suggestions as to what else can be done to solve the problem - a special spacer perhaps? I understand Moss, Rimmer and TRGB standard springs are all the same. (As far as I know, the GSV1001 springs are actually for the TR6 and compared with those that came off, have at least one more coil and a wire diameter that is 3/32 greater (17/32 as against 7/16)). Interestingly, Moss tell me that my front (short) springs with spacer are from a TR4 and not a 4A (the OE 4A springs don't need the spacer apparently).

 

Horse

 

Horse

All Great input. seem seem that the ideal tr4a ride height seem to be a bit of a holy grail thing

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See this thread for background to our problem:

TR4A Ground Clearance, (or lack of)

 

We had all four springs changed by TRGB - not sure if we have a record of the part numbers but if you call them (01487 842168) and mention my name I'm sure they (or at least Richard) will be able to tell you.

 

I've just found the invoice - TRGB part nos are:

GSV1001U Rear Spring TR6

213165U Front spring TR6

 

(All at £19.95 each +VAT)

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When I enquired about this with Revington recently they indicated they would be able to supply a pair of original 4A springs that were matched in length, if you sent them one of yours to compare they could probably find a pair that are longer than what you have.

 

Andy

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Been reading this and it's getting pretty confusing. Rimmer mentions that they have uprated spring and mention that these are 3/4 - 1" lower. Here I read that uprated means standard height, and lowered is lowered =>

 

Kit 3 - (1) - RR1411

Includes 2 front & 2 rear Spax shock absorbers, 4 uprated/lowered springs (front 420lb/1" lowered - rear 420lb/3/4" lowered) & 8 spring insulators.

 

to be found here: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/rimmer/triumph...s#Spring%20Kits

 

Although this is for a TR6 guess the use of terms is the same, so what's true?

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Hi Jobster, uprated just means stronger, ie stiffer. These can be had in standard, shorter, or longer lengths, if you can find them.

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On a 4A, which is of course a lighter car than a TR6, I have found that standard springs with very good dampers eg Konis in my case are perfectly good. If you feel the car is sitting too high, are you using the correct profile of tyre? 195/60 is a common modern profile but will look smaller in the wheel arches than the correct profile (ie 185/70 or 165/80)

 

Andy

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Ian,

 

Many thanks for the prompt. I had assumed that Revington only do performance mods, but I contacted them and they actually sell spacers for both front and rear springs for the TR4A. In fact they do complete suspension packages and are worth consulting before replacing any springs.

 

For info for Forum members, the spacers come as a pair, each 5mm high, so that the advertised net effect is to raise the suspension by 20mm or approximately 0.8 inches. (10mm x 2 mechanical advantage.) Just what I needed.

 

Horse

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  • 2 weeks later...

My strong advise is NOT to go for a lowered suspension and this for reasons mentioned earler. Some years ago I installed lowered springs to my 6 and quicly came to the conclusion that I made the wrong choise. I had MOSS TT4006 springs in combo with spax adjustables on my TR3A (increased hight, 390 Lbs) and was very pleased with them. Firm enough over speed bumps and when cornering en yet comfy enough for everyday rides with the missus. Due to the fact that during rallying the car was not firm enough at the front I changed recently to the rally springs from Revington (420 Lbs). They are the optimum for the my application. In case you go for uprated springs do not forget the schockabsorbers. You should uprate them as well. I have now AVO shocks and the car behaves so much better than with the SPAX which became an expensive exercise.( 2 sets failed over 10.000km of road rallying and all just after the warranty period. Always the same problem, no lost of oil, but probably failure of the internals). Next to that install an anti roll bar. This greatly contributes to the behaviour of your car. I would even make this the 1st investment if not installed yet. Have a chat with the guys at Revington, after that you are still free to go in any direction you want.

Regards, rudi

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Guest james67
My strong advise is NOT to go for a lowered suspension and this for reasons mentioned earler. Some years ago I installed lowered springs to my 6 and quicly came to the conclusion that I made the wrong choise. I had MOSS TT4006 springs in combo with spax adjustables on my TR3A (increased hight, 390 Lbs) and was very pleased with them. Firm enough over speed bumps and when cornering en yet comfy enough for everyday rides with the missus. Due to the fact that during rallying the car was not firm enough at the front I changed recently to the rally springs from Revington (420 Lbs). They are the optimum for the my application. In case you go for uprated springs do not forget the schockabsorbers. You should uprate them as well. I have now AVO shocks and the car behaves so much better than with the SPAX which became an expensive exercise.( 2 sets failed over 10.000km of road rallying and all just after the warranty period. Always the same problem, no lost of oil, but probably failure of the internals). Next to that install an anti roll bar. This greatly contributes to the behaviour of your car. I would even make this the 1st investment if not installed yet. Have a chat with the guys at Revington, after that you are still free to go in any direction you want.

Regards, rudi

 

Hi Rudi

What advarntich dus It give you fitting a anti roll bar and how dus it fit to the

Car.

James

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Hi James, an anti roll bar will keep the change of masses under control when cornering and therefore both wheels firmly to the ground. The car will sit more stable in the corner. As said a worthwile investment both in combination with standard or uprated springs. I can not recommend a type for the TR4A as I have a TR3A myself (TT3081 from Moss is ok for a Tr3A and they recommend to use the TR6 set up for a 4A. But that you can read in another topic in this forum)

regards and good luck, Rudi

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Hi James, I'd like to mention that in my replies I speak about the FRONT suuspension!

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Guest james67
Hi James, I'd like to mention that in my replies I speak about the FRONT suuspension!

 

Yes got that

 

Yes Rudi

I am watching the topic Anti Roll Bar TR4 - Dimensions and looking foreword to the outcome of the then I will no which way to go. But I have just poly bush the whole car and it is brilliant

James

Edited by james67
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  • 4 months later...

Sorry for tagging onto this thread but my query is very much related.

 

I'm thinking of having four wheel alignment carried out on my TR4A IRS as it's never been checked properly since restoration. In fact I've not even been able to find a local garage who can check the front tracking due to the wire wheel knock on spinners getting in the way of their modern equipment.

 

My front chassis suspension turrets were repaired by the Northern TR Centre some years ago (a seven year restoration) - one turret had the classic twist as the strengthening brackets had not been fitted at the time and the car must have previously hit a kerb or similar. During the rebuild I replaced the same number of front suspension lower shims as had come out and in theory this may not have been appropriate as my car has very noticeable negative camber easily seen from a frontal view. I've read Revington's article 'Correct fitment of TR4A-6 front suspension upper wishbones' and have confirmed that mine are indeed installed correctly (not incorrectly as shown in a workshop manual).

 

During the rebuild I fitted different suspension springs and bushes. The front springs are TT4001 (with AVO TU284 dampers from Revington) and TT4212 rear springs and standard dampers. I had initially thought that both springs retained the standard height but note that the Moss catalogue

indicates that the front springs are actually slightly lowered (6.7" as against 6.75" originally).

 

At the time of chassis restoration (about 5 years ago) I did replace all of the bushes on the car with polyurethane except for some in the front suspension. This was after someone gave me advice that replacing all bushes would make it too hard and subject to noise. I think it was the bottom bushes that were left as rubber but unfortunately I cannot remember at the moment. Wish I'd done them all with hindsight.

 

I'm about to change the spring collars (top and bottom to all four springs) in polyurethane as I did not replace the original ones when rebuilding and I suspect they're probably hard by now.

 

The car is a standard road car. Overall I'm impressed with the handling (never having had an old car myself before) though it's a bit hard and clattery over the roadworks and potholes.

 

My question is, does anyone have any recommendations or corrections for the suspension settings from that published? The Triumph workshop manual states the following:

Toe in (front and rear for IRS) 0" to 1/16" (1.6mm)

Front wheel camber 0 degrees +/- half a degree.

IRS rear wheel camber one degree negative +/- half a degree.

 

Thanks,

Paul

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Hi James, I have the following set up on my 4A

 

Front springs Moss TT4001 (about 1/2 ins lower)

Rear springs Moss TT4212 (also 1/2 ins lower)

Front shocks standard

Front anti roll bar - as shown in latest moss catalogue page 8

Rear - Konis using type 2 brackets,as shown in Moss Cat, TT3225TUV page 8, these have 3 point fixing, lower on bump stop bkt.

Superflex bushes in swinging arm.

S/Arm mounting bkts changed to give slight neg camber as shown in old TR Action

Front set to 0.75 neg camber.

 

Wheels are 60 spoke wires with std Firestone tyres on front

 

The car has been used like this for the past 4 years (4000miles/year) and the only change I have planned is 2 more Firestones when the vredestein 185 rear tyres wear down a bit more.

 

Hope this helps, Chris

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Just thought I'd add that I've had the four wheel alignment and tracking work completed by Willow Triumph, based near Darlington.

 

The angles before were inconsistent side to side but now it's all sorted.

 

Toe in (front and rear for IRS) should be 0" to 1/16" (1.6mm). It was up to 6mm but is now 1mm front and 1.5 rear.

 

Front wheel camber should be 0 degrees +/- half a degree. They were up to 2 degrees but are now 0.75 degrees

IRS rear wheel camber should be one degree negative +/- half a degree and have not needed to be touched at one degree.

 

Overall I'm delighted with the work though it's hard to tell the difference that this setting has made - it was mostly motorway on the way home and unfortunately we had sleet yesterday and snow forecast for the next couple of days so a decent drive on country roads will have to wait.

 

Paul

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Just thought I'd add that I've had the four wheel alignment and tracking work completed by Willow Triumph, based near Darlington.

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what was the approx. cost for this alignment work and do they use laser equipment. You can PM me if you don't want to post on here.

 

Thanks

 

Graeme

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